Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

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ubermax
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Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by ubermax » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:03 pm

Apparently if the "controlled folder access option" within Defender is activated, it nullifies ransomware attacks - has anyone felt compelled to
activate this option or is the risk too small on an individual level to bother with it ?

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TnGuy
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by TnGuy » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:03 pm

"Money will not make you happy. And happy will not make you money." - Groucho Marx

streamline
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by streamline » Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:48 pm

Now that you have helped me learn of this new feature (read that linked article), I plan to turn it on. Sounds like goodness.

Thanks!

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AAA
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by AAA » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:02 pm

I have a fairly recent machine but I never got the Creator's update earlier this year. I realize that I can do it manually, but I am just wondering why it hasn't been done automatically.

My machine is sleeping/off most of the time, but when I recently did an update to OS 1607 and checked for further updates, it said there are none. I also once left the machine on overnight and still no Creator's update was offered.

So two questions - what might be the reason that it hasn't done the Creator's update and can I go directly from the OS currently on my machine to the Fall Creator's update?

Thanks.

ericmc
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by ericmc » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:00 pm

AAA wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:02 pm
I have a fairly recent machine but I never got the Creator's update earlier this year. I realize that I can do it manually, but I am just wondering why it hasn't been done automatically.

My machine is sleeping/off most of the time, but when I recently did an update to OS 1607 and checked for further updates, it said there are none. I also once left the machine on overnight and still no Creator's update was offered.

So two questions - what might be the reason that it hasn't done the Creator's update and can I go directly from the OS currently on my machine to the Fall Creator's update?

Thanks.
Are you getting the monthly updates (usually on 2nd Tuesday) every month? If not likely you are experiencing a general issue with windows update.

808
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by 808 » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:17 am

AAA wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:02 pm
My machine is sleeping/off most of the time, but when I recently did an update to OS 1607 and checked for further updates, it said there are none. I also once left the machine on overnight and still no Creator's update was offered
During the Windows OS upgrade (e.g., 1607, 1703, 1709, etc.) a "backup" folder named windows.old will be created. This allows you to restore the previous version for roughly 30 days. During that time, you will not be offered another OS update. There are ways to safely force the deletion of this folder (disk cleanup) if you are sure you will not need to restore the previous version.

How long has it been since you got upgraded to 1607?

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AAA
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by AAA » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:55 am

ericmc wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:00 pm
Are you getting the monthly updates (usually on 2nd Tuesday) every month? If not likely you are experiencing a general issue with windows update.
I do get occasional updates, although I haven't noticed exactly when they occur. I had an update to 1607 about a week ago.

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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by AAA » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:00 am

808 wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:17 am
How long has it been since you got upgraded to 1607?
I'm not sure. I purchased this refurbished Dell desktop about a year ago. It had two (of the original three) years warranty left so it's a fairly recent machine that came with Windows 10 Professional. As I mentioned in another reply, within the past week or so I got a 1607 update.

As to my other question, can you go directly to Fall Creator's from 1607?

hudson
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by hudson » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:17 pm

AAA wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:00 am
808 wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:17 am
How long has it been since you got upgraded to 1607?
I'm not sure. I purchased this refurbished Dell desktop about a year ago. It had two (of the original three) years warranty left so it's a fairly recent machine that came with Windows 10 Professional. As I mentioned in another reply, within the past week or so I got a 1607 update.

As to my other question, can you go directly to Fall Creator's from 1607?
I think you can find your answer from Microsoft...here:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... ors-update

"Before doing this, you'll need to make sure your device is up to date. Select the Start button, then select Settings > Update & security > Windows Update. Select Check for updates. If updates are available, install them.
Check your version of Windows 10"

I couldn't find Microsoft's directions to turn on the "Controlled Folder Access". This website does a good job: https://howtogeek.com/329532/how-to ... er-access/

Edit: I found Microsoft's directions for "Controlled Folder Access"...see below.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... ity-center

Protect files from unauthorized access

Use Controlled folder access to manage which folders apps can make changes to. You can also add additional apps you trust to make changes in those folders.

When you turn on Controlled folder access, a lot of the folders you use most often will be protected by default. This means that content in any of these folders cannot be accessed or changed by any unknown or untrusted apps. Once you add additional folders, they become automatically protected as well.

To add protected folders:

Select Virus & threat protection settings.
Under Controlled folder access, select Protected folders.
Select Add a protected folder and follow the prompts to add folders.
If you see an App is blocked message when you try to use a familiar app, you can simply unblock the app. If this message displays:

Write down or take note of the path of the blocked app.
Select the message, and then select Add an allowed app.
Browse for the program you want to allow access.
Last edited by hudson on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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heartwood
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by heartwood » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:32 pm

ubermax wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:03 pm
Apparently if the "controlled folder access option" within Defender is activated, it nullifies ransomware attacks - has anyone felt compelled to
activate this option or is the risk too small on an individual level to bother with it ?
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out

I've been using the malwarebytes anti- ransomware beta https://malwarebytes-anti-ransomware.en ... =DSK-309.5

for several months on a W10 laptop and on an older laptop running W7. I don't think it available for my chromebook.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:51 pm

i'm only seeing 1703 in my windows updates. Don't see 1607. And I'm not seeing the controlled folder access anywhere under virus and threat protection settings. what am i missing? All i see is "real time", "cloud based" and "automatic sample submission" but not "controled folder" anywhere.
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by jebmke » Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:15 pm

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:51 pm
i'm only seeing 1703 in my windows updates. Don't see 1607. And I'm not seeing the controlled folder access anywhere under virus and threat protection settings. what am i missing? All i see is "real time", "cloud based" and "automatic sample submission" but not "controled folder" anywhere.
You may not have the fall creators update installed yet. Not many machines do. There was an initial creators update earlier in the year that has rolled out over some months. I suspect the fall update of the creators update will also get rolled out over time. My desktop does not have the fall update yet.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:15 pm

jebmke wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:15 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:51 pm
i'm only seeing 1703 in my windows updates. Don't see 1607. And I'm not seeing the controlled folder access anywhere under virus and threat protection settings. what am i missing? All i see is "real time", "cloud based" and "automatic sample submission" but not "controled folder" anywhere.
You may not have the fall creators update installed yet. Not many machines do. There was an initial creators update earlier in the year that has rolled out over some months. I suspect the fall update of the creators update will also get rolled out over time. My desktop does not have the fall update yet.
ok. thanks. will keep an eye out for that over the next few months.
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

808
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by 808 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:09 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:15 pm
jebmke wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:15 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:51 pm
i'm only seeing 1703 in my windows updates. Don't see 1607. And I'm not seeing the controlled folder access anywhere under virus and threat protection settings. what am i missing? All i see is "real time", "cloud based" and "automatic sample submission" but not "controled folder" anywhere.
You may not have the fall creators update installed yet. Not many machines do. There was an initial creators update earlier in the year that has rolled out over some months. I suspect the fall update of the creators update will also get rolled out over time. My desktop does not have the fall update yet.
ok. thanks. will keep an eye out for that over the next few months.
1607 (2016 July) = Anniversary Update
1703 (2017 March) = Creators Update
1709 (2017 September) = Fall Creators Update

viewtopic.php?p=3592487#p3593000 explains how to get the Fall Creators Update if you don't want to wait.

EDIT: Because I didn't get it right the first time that the ninth month is September, not August. :)
Last edited by 808 on Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:35 am

808 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:09 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:15 pm
jebmke wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:15 pm
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:51 pm
i'm only seeing 1703 in my windows updates. Don't see 1607. And I'm not seeing the controlled folder access anywhere under virus and threat protection settings. what am i missing? All i see is "real time", "cloud based" and "automatic sample submission" but not "controled folder" anywhere.
You may not have the fall creators update installed yet. Not many machines do. There was an initial creators update earlier in the year that has rolled out over some months. I suspect the fall update of the creators update will also get rolled out over time. My desktop does not have the fall update yet.
ok. thanks. will keep an eye out for that over the next few months.
1607 (2016 July) = Anniversary Update
1703 (2017 March) = Creators Update
1709 (2017 August) = Fall Creators Update

viewtopic.php?p=3592487#p3593000 explains how to get the Fall Creators Update if you don't want to wait.
thanks. i will read up on that post.
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bberris
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by bberris » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:15 pm

I couldn't get controlled access to work with LibreOffice, even after adding all the executables to the exclusion list. As long as you only use MS products, I guess it would be great.

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AAA
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by AAA » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:24 pm

Well after being stuck on 1607 and "check for updates" not getting me the 1703 Creators Update, I went through some steps for what I thought would get it on my machine. When it was all said an done, it was 1709 (Fall Creators Update) that was installed. I usually don't like to update to a new OS before some of the bugs have been fixed, but so far I haven't found any problems. So to answer my question - you can go from 1607 directly to 1709.

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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by JPH » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:31 am

How do you decide which folders to protect? Couldn't the ransomware potentially attack any folder?
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jebmke
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by jebmke » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:00 am

AAA wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:24 pm
I usually don't like to update to a new OS before some of the bugs have been fixed, but so far I haven't found any problems.
I block all the updates and manually install the security ones as needed. Once a non-security update has "seasoned" for a while I install it (after taking an image of my existing machine state). I looked at the Fall creators update. Other than the folder protection there isn't much interesting. From my limited reading on the folder protection it appears to be a clumsy implementation. I suspect they will enhance this over time. I still think the best defense against ransom ware is a robust back up system with versioning and good computing hygiene.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by bertilak » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:45 pm

jebmke wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:00 am
I still think the best defense against ransom ware is a robust back up system with versioning and good computing hygiene.
That's my solution. Nearly ALL data corruption (or loss) is due to user error and versioning is the solution to that, even without the ransomware threat.

I have always rejected any backup solution that did not have versioning, redundancy and and off-site storage. Ransomware protection comes along for free if you have a good backup strategy.
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hudson
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by hudson » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:01 pm

JPH wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:31 am
How do you decide which folders to protect? Couldn't the ransomware potentially attack any folder?
From this link: https://howtogeek.com/329532/how-to ... er-access/

"By default, you’ll see that Windows protects system folders and user data folders. These include the Documents, Pictures, Videos, Music, Desktop, and Favorites folders in your user account’s folder.

If you store important data in other folders, you’ll want to click the “Add a protected folder” button and add other folders with your important personal data."


Note: By default, Controlled Folder Access is turned off.

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JPH
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by JPH » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:03 am

This update is not yet being distributed to my computer; the website mentions that they are providing it to newer computers first. I can get the update now by using either an Update tool or a Download tool. The Download tool will completely reinstall Windows 10 to the Fall Creators Edition. Concerning the Download tool they state: "When Windows 10 is ready to install, you’ll see a recap of what you’ve chosen, and what will be kept through the upgrade. Select Change what to keep to set whether you would like to Keep personal files and apps, or Keep personal files only, or choose to keep Nothing during the upgrade." Do experienced users think there is any advantage to the re-installation option? I have been experiencing some issues with slow progress and freezing that I would hope to fix.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by scrabbler1 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:36 pm

I didn't have the Controlled Folders feature so I ran Windows Update and it picked up the Fall creators version, downloaded it, and installed it. When I opened up Defender, it was there. I turned it on and added one personal folder not among the ones it includes by default. Not too bad.

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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by JPH » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:00 am

I completed the upgrade to the Fall Creators Edition, but the Controlled Folder Access toggle button is greyed out. I'm concurrently running McAfee Total Protection, but turning it off does not fix the problem. Can anyone suggest a possible solution?

Edited to answer my own question:
You can’t enable Controlled Folder Access when you have a third-party AV app installed and Windows Defender is running in its Limited Periodic Scanning mode. Controlled Folder Access is only available when Windows Defender is running in a standalone configuration.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

hudson
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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by hudson » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:46 pm

I believe that the Controlled Folder Access is not for everyone. It takes some technical ability or problem solving savvy to make it work.

Errors pop-up with Windows Defender that are confusing.

When the errors pop up, the error message doesn't give you enough information to solve the problem....you can't see the full error...you can't copy and paste the error into a search window to find help.

This link helped me see the full error message...and learn the location of the app or program; but it's kind of technical: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... der-av-ids


If you can figure out the name of the app (program) that you want to give Controlled Folder Access too, it's very hard to find and browse to the app because by default Windows programs are "HIDDEN".

This link helped me turn off HIDDEN files. I ignored at least one scary warning message. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... dden-files

There are some apps that are calling for access that I just don't know about; I continually get an error saying that "msiexec.exe wants to make changes.
I probably need to go into a Microsoft discussion group and ask the question. Since it's not causing a problem, I'm holding off.

It takes lots of searching and patience to properly maintain Controlled Folder Access. I don't think it's ready for the average computer user.

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Re: Windows 10 - Fall Creator's Update - Ransomeware

Post by 808 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:18 am

hudson wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:46 pm
There are some apps that are calling for access that I just don't know about; I continually get an error saying that "msiexec.exe wants to make changes.
msiexec is a Microsoft program that is used to install or update applications. The applications or updates have the .msi extension.

It sounds like you have made an application directory (where the associated program files are) a Controlled Access Folder. I believe the more likely intent was to apply "controlled access" to data directories, as opposed to the actual program directories.

See the Precautions section from this article: https://tunecomp.net/controlled-folder- ... indows-10/

EDITED to add, your post here: viewtopic.php?p=3596420#p3596420 says, "If you store important data in other folders, ..."

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