Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for employee

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mariezzz
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Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for employee

Post by mariezzz » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:18 pm

I’d like to verify the “correction process” my employer says the IRS requires when the employer fails to make contributions requested by the employee and thus, fails to follow plan documents. The account is a 403b at a large public university system.

My employer has failed to deduct from my paycheck a requested retirement plan increased contribution for >2 months now. The increased amount is about $120 per month. As soon as I became eligible for this increase, I requested it. Plan documents specify that, once you’re eligible and request the increase, it will be deducted from the paycheck in the pay period after you make the request. We have 2 retirement plans – one for money that gets the employer’s match, and one which is optional.

To make a long story short, I kept contacting the employer at least weekly, mostly in writing (5 emails, each 6-8 days apart) and once by phone (>20 min hold times at the Benefits office, so I tried to avoid this option). I got at best vague replies to only 3 emails (they were "investigating", with no explanation of what the problem was or when it would get fixed.

This past weekend, I finally wrote a letter, elevating the matter above the director of the unit and copying the director herself.
===============
I finally heard from the director Monday. She said the problem was due to a software error from a new payroll system implemented early in the summer. Apparently, I was the first (and perhaps only!) person to notice the problem, and the delay in getting me answers had to do with them trying to figure out where the error was coming from. The direct said they were following IRS correction processes which were as follows (this is what I want to verify):
  • For the pay periods the employer failed to take my contribution from my paycheck, I will not be able to make that contribution. The employer says the IRS does not allow the employer to take my contributions retroactively
  • The employer will retroactively make their contribution back to the pay period in which it should have started, under plan documents (the match to what I would have made).
  • As a “penalty”, the IRS requires that the employer make an additional contribution that totals 50% of the contribution I would have made, had the employer honored my request.
The above means that the total contribution by employer (retroactive plus “penalty”) is still 50% less than what my portion of the contribution would have been.

I’m being told by my employer that the only thing I can do to make up this gap is to contribute more to my supplemental retirement plan. As long as I do this, I can make the contributions equal what would have been made without the employer error.

The director said she would check with payroll to see whether they could guarantee that the increased contribution – the one I requested > 2 months ago – would finally show up on my Nov 10 paycheck. I did finally receive confirmation that would happen – the interesting thing will be whether it will happen.

The director emphasized that the above was what the lawyers said had to be done.

In the end, if everything occurs according to the above, I will get the contributions I planned. I have lost 4-5 hours trying to resolve this situation. When I asked about compensation there, of course, nothing was forthcoming, nor is there any compensation for all t he stress this caused.

Thanks in advance!

fposte
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by fposte » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:28 pm

No help, but I'm really interested; a similar thing happened to me with my state university employer, and there was no mention of the IRS requiring the employer to contribute half the amount I had requested; I was just told that it was rotten luck, sorry. I don't suppose they gave you any details on that?

runner3081
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by runner3081 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:30 pm

U.S. Department of Labor's Employee Benefits Security Administration (EBSA).

This is where you go if not resolved.

mariezzz
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by mariezzz » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:39 pm

fposte wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:28 pm
No help, but I'm really interested; a similar thing happened to me with my state university employer, and there was no mention of the IRS requiring the employer to contribute half the amount I had requested; I was just told that it was rotten luck, sorry. I don't suppose they gave you any details on that?
I did not get an IRS publication number, but I'll bet someone here would know the details, if I've been told correctly.
The important thing is they must follow plan documents, so that would give you some leverage if they hadn't.

ERISA Stone
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by ERISA Stone » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:40 pm

Without researching too much, their remedy sounds right. Respectfully, you are not out 50%. You received the funds as direct compensation.

https://irs.gov/retirement-plans/fi ... -elections

student
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by student » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:45 pm

My experience is that this will get resolved and you will get the contributions that you have planned. If you push it, you may be able to get the lost gain should the market went up and you missed it due to their error. As for compensation for time wasted, it is unlikely that this will happen.

ERISA Stone
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by ERISA Stone » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:55 pm

student wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:45 pm
you may be able to get the lost gain should the market went up and you missed it due to their error.
It's not arbitrary. Lost earnings are a step in making the participant whole.

mariezzz
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by mariezzz » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:05 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:40 pm
Without researching too much, their remedy sounds right. Respectfully, you are not out 50%. You received the funds as direct compensation.

https://irs.gov/retirement-plans/fi ... -elections
Thanks for the link.

I realize what you say is true; that's why I said:
The above means that the total contribution by employer (retroactive plus “penalty”) is still 50% less than what my portion of the contribution would have been.

I’m being told by my employer that the only thing I can do to make up this gap is to contribute more to my supplemental retirement plan. As long as I do this, I can make the contributions equal what would have been made without the employer error.
As for the matter of forgone market gains: Yes, the market went up, but it's no more than 5% of a couple hundred dollars. So not worth pursuing. Pursuing compensation for time I had to waste to resolve this, given the employer's failure to respond with real information, would be another matter. But I realize that I'm almost certainly not going to get such compensation!

But, for those who might want to pursue forgone market gains, at the link Erisa provided above, it says:
The described correction only applies to missed deferrals. The corrective contribution also must be adjusted for earnings from the date that the elective deferrals should have been made through the date of the corrective contribution.
That document is one of the clearest IRS documents I've ever read.

===
I also pointed out to the director that they were pretty lucky to have me discover this while they still had time to fix it before the end of the year. This whole thing can upset both someone's tax planning and retirement planning, if they're not double-checking everything regularly.
Last edited by mariezzz on Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

student
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by student » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:16 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:55 pm
student wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:45 pm
you may be able to get the lost gain should the market went up and you missed it due to their error.
It's not arbitrary. Lost earnings are a step in making the participant whole.
That's good to know. My colleague got it when this happened to him.

Edit: What happened to my colleague is actually a bit different. It was the employer's contribution (no matching required) that was delayed.
Last edited by student on Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fposte
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by fposte » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:31 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:40 pm
Without researching too much, their remedy sounds right. Respectfully, you are not out 50%. You received the funds as direct compensation.

https://irs.gov/retirement-plans/fi ... -elections
Wow. Thanks. Just sent an email inquiring about its application to my contribution, and I will contact the IRS with the info provided to be sure if my employer says it doesn't. Would the fact that it was to a 457 change the applicability?

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Watty
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by Watty » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:42 pm

mariezzz wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:18 pm
plan increased contribution for >2 months now. The increased amount is about $120 per month.
If I understand it right you missed $240 in contributions but you got the money in your paycheck and as part of the rules you outlined you still got a their match plus a 50% contribution($120) because of the penalty.

You had to pay taxes on the $240 but in all you got an extra $120 too so it sounds like you actually came out ahead.

It sounds like it was frustrating but I think you need to let it go as long as the problem is fixed in the next paycheck.

"Stuff" happens and this isn't a biggie. Being a sticker pain in their side will not be to your benefit if you even make some small mistake in your job that you would want your employer to overlook.

mariezzz
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by mariezzz » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:38 pm

Watty wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:42 pm
"Stuff" happens and this isn't a biggie. Being a sticker pain in their side will not be to your benefit if you even make some small mistake in your job that you would want your employer to overlook.
You hadn't read all my comments when you replied. In general, as I've said, I agree that it's not worth my time to pursue any compensation. This is a big public university, so the benefits department has no impact on my day-to-day work.

This isn't a small mistake, though. Since it is a public university, it's fairly shocking that this error went uncovered for several months, and they do need to learn from this mistake. Perhaps the fact that they will end up paying out money (taxpayer money) they wouldn't have had to, will help them accomplish this goal. It's also quite shocking that it took so long for me to get any substantive reply or explanation, much less an explanation of how they would correct it.

I'm a taxpayer as well, and I expect better performance in terms of dealing with errors. Errors do happen, although hopefully not too often. How they are handled is what is critical. Their processes in this regard largely failed - I only got a substantive reply because I elevated the issue. If I had received a substantive reply much earlier, before I had to send multiple emails and elevate the issue, I'd be much less troubled.

ERISA Stone
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by ERISA Stone » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:50 am

fposte wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:31 pm
ERISA Stone wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:40 pm
Without researching too much, their remedy sounds right. Respectfully, you are not out 50%. You received the funds as direct compensation.

https://irs.gov/retirement-plans/fi ... -elections
Wow. Thanks. Just sent an email inquiring about its application to my contribution, and I will contact the IRS with the info provided to be sure if my employer says it doesn't. Would the fact that it was to a 457 change the applicability?
I can't find confirmation that this covers a 457 plan, but I know of other corrections that apply to 457 and 401k plans alike, so I don't think this one would be different.

student
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by student » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:06 am

mariezzz wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:38 pm
Watty wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:42 pm
"Stuff" happens and this isn't a biggie. Being a sticker pain in their side will not be to your benefit if you even make some small mistake in your job that you would want your employer to overlook.
You hadn't read all my comments when you replied. In general, as I've said, I agree that it's not worth my time to pursue any compensation. This is a big public university, so the benefits department has no impact on my day-to-day work.

This isn't a small mistake, though. Since it is a public university, it's fairly shocking that this error went uncovered for several months, and they do need to learn from this mistake. Perhaps the fact that they will end up paying out money (taxpayer money) they wouldn't have had to, will help them accomplish this goal. It's also quite shocking that it took so long for me to get any substantive reply or explanation, much less an explanation of how they would correct it.

I'm a taxpayer as well, and I expect better performance in terms of dealing with errors. Errors do happen, although hopefully not too often. How they are handled is what is critical. Their processes in this regard largely failed - I only got a substantive reply because I elevated the issue. If I had received a substantive reply much earlier, before I had to send multiple emails and elevate the issue, I'd be much less troubled.
I am only mildly shocked. I also work at a public university (20,000 students). My colleague discovered an error on the university's contribution. He talked to the union, the union talked to HR. It turns out that there were other isolated cases. HR replied along the line that "yes we made a mistake, we will look into it and you will be made whole." It took several months (if I recall correctly). At the end, the error was fixed. I do not know what process did they need to do. Perhaps they need to review the software to identity the error before it can be fixed. What I found unacceptable in your case is the lack of response at the beginning. In this type of situations, my experience is that the best way is to go and talk to them in person and follow up with an email summarizing the discussion.

fposte
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by fposte » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:33 am

ERISA Stone wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:50 am
fposte wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:31 pm
Would the fact that it was to a 457 change the applicability?
I can't find confirmation that this covers a 457 plan, but I know of other corrections that apply to 457 and 401k plans alike, so I don't think this one would be different.
Thanks. The overall phrasing in the associated pamphlet is "Tax Exempt & Government Entities Division Employee Plan," which would certainly seem to cover it.

Even if I do get the penalty contribution I won't be made completely whole, as I take the maximum allowable deductions from my paycheck to make the contribution and therefore couldn't make up the difference later, but it would help.

Bayoufrogg
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by Bayoufrogg » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:45 am

I was recently in a similar situation. Company drafted $1500 from my check every month x 4 months to be deposited in a 457b account. I was the first person in the company to utilize this account. The money never showed up in the 457b until after the 4th months draft and many, many emails/calls.

The withdrawals are finally deposited. The small amount of gains are not worth the headache in trying to get that back from the company. Compensation for my time is extremely unlikely, so thats not worth it either.

I just took it as a loss, decided I was pleased that the issue was corrected going forward, and moved on.

mariezzz
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by mariezzz » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:24 am

student wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:06 am
In this type of situations, my experience is that the best way is to go and talk to them in person and follow up with an email summarizing the discussion.
Talking in person may be effective. That's something to try, although putting the issue in writing provides better documentation, plus the email you get in reply provides documentation of their response. If you try the in person approach & there isn't a quick resolution, start combining emails with visits (if you decide to keep on with the face-to-face approach).
A bit of my experience with this benefits office; I've shrunk the font down as the detail is a bit extraneous to the issue, but explains a lot about how this office operates:
This benefits office has made it almost impossible to see someone face-to-face, and is slow to respond to any method of communication. I stopped by their office for another issue about a year ago (issues related to my HDHP), and wasted close to an hour. First, I waited half an hour. Then, the receptionist went back to a person in the back, posed my question, then came back with an incomplete answer. I asked for clarification, and also explicitly said, I'd like to just talk to the person who gave this answer. The receptionist said that wasn't possible, and went back for clarification. There needed to be a 3rd back & forth; again, I emphasized I would like to talk to the person directly, and was refused. Finally, I asked the receptionist to have the person put in writing what I was being told, and sign it, so I had some documentation that indeed, the receptionist was accurately reporting what she had been told. I did get that. I had previously tried on another issue to get clarification by email, and although I did eventually get resolution, it took a couple of weeks in total: when I needed further clarification to the first response, there was a delay of another week. And this was after I scoured their website to find the answer (in the end, they told me their website didn't address the issue).

With this benefits office, customer service is not a priority. It can be days to a week or more to get a written response (they have more recently started to use a messaging system which maintains all email in a chain - which is good - but when people reply, there's no indication of who made the reply), easily >20 min on hold on the phone before you reach someone (who may not be the person who can give you an answer), and stopping by, in my experience is even worse. Even if you have a direct dial number, they don't answer their phones and it can be several day before you get a call-back (I generally cannot answer my phone during working hours and have to leave the building to have a private call).

student
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by student » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:19 pm

mariezzz wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:24 am
student wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:06 am
In this type of situations, my experience is that the best way is to go and talk to them in person and follow up with an email summarizing the discussion.
Talking in person may be effective. That's something to try, although putting the issue in writing provides better documentation, plus the email you get in reply provides documentation of their response. If you try the in person approach & there isn't a quick resolution, start combining emails with visits (if you decide to keep on with the face-to-face approach).
A bit of my experience with this benefits office; I've shrunk the font down as the detail is a bit extraneous to the issue, but explains a lot about how this office operates:
This benefits office has made it almost impossible to see someone face-to-face, and is slow to respond to any method of communication. I stopped by their office for another issue about a year ago (issues related to my HDHP), and wasted close to an hour. First, I waited half an hour. Then, the receptionist went back to a person in the back, posed my question, then came back with an incomplete answer. I asked for clarification, and also explicitly said, I'd like to just talk to the person who gave this answer. The receptionist said that wasn't possible, and went back for clarification. There needed to be a 3rd back & forth; again, I emphasized I would like to talk to the person directly, and was refused. Finally, I asked the receptionist to have the person put in writing what I was being told, and sign it, so I had some documentation that indeed, the receptionist was accurately reporting what she had been told. I did get that. I had previously tried on another issue to get clarification by email, and although I did eventually get resolution, it took a couple of weeks in total: when I needed further clarification to the first response, there was a delay of another week. And this was after I scoured their website to find the answer (in the end, they told me their website didn't address the issue).

With this benefits office, customer service is not a priority. It can be days to a week or more to get a written response (they have more recently started to use a messaging system which maintains all email in a chain - which is good - but when people reply, there's no indication of who made the reply), easily >20 min on hold on the phone before you reach someone (who may not be the person who can give you an answer), and stopping by, in my experience is even worse. Even if you have a direct dial number, they don't answer their phones and it can be several day before you get a call-back (I generally cannot answer my phone during working hours and have to leave the building to have a private call).
Do you have a union? We do and it helps.

fposte
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by fposte » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:40 am

I'm not the OP but I've been posting on this thread about my similar situation at what's clearly a different state university with a 457b. The current status isn't good. I sent the Benefits Office a link to that IRS page about fixing plan mistakes, and they state that that page only applies to 401ks and to matches; since it very clearly doesn't apply only to matches, I'm not filled with confidence in their judgment.

I contacted the Employee Plans Customer Account Services division of the IRS, and that did not go well. She stated that she did not understand what I was asking ("Does this page of IRS guidance about retirement plans apply to governmental 457b plans as well?" seemed pretty clear to me, so I really was at a loss to break it down) and told me I could get guidance for my tax filings in the online information or through third-party tax software. I said this was not a personal tax issue, she then said she'd put me on hold to talk to somebody else, and cut me off/hung up on me. It took me about 45 minutes to get to a human the first time and after a 30-minute wait on my call back I decided to bail.

EBSA: The EBSA online form has a broken script on all three of my browsers, so I called the regional office today and got a very nice and patient guy who told me that unfortunately EBSA has no jurisdiction over government employers. He knew his stuff and talked about employers doing a QNEC, and I noted that my problem was my employer believed they had no obligation to do so and that IRS guidance wasn't sufficiently explicit.

The local IRS office is right near me, so I went ahead and made an appointment for Monday. I suspect this will be way out of the wheelhouse of the folks there, but maybe they can bump the question to the right people. I'm not so much on a crusade as deeply curious and slightly alarmed--there really seems to be no mechanism for reporting issues with this kind of retirement plan outside of the employer themselves.

student
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by student » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:12 am

fposte wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:40 am
I'm not the OP but I've been posting on this thread about my similar situation at what's clearly a different state university with a 457b. The current status isn't good. I sent the Benefits Office a link to that IRS page about fixing plan mistakes, and they state that that page only applies to 401ks and to matches; since it very clearly doesn't apply only to matches, I'm not filled with confidence in their judgment.

I contacted the Employee Plans Customer Account Services division of the IRS, and that did not go well. She stated that she did not understand what I was asking ("Does this page of IRS guidance about retirement plans apply to governmental 457b plans as well?" seemed pretty clear to me, so I really was at a loss to break it down) and told me I could get guidance for my tax filings in the online information or through third-party tax software. I said this was not a personal tax issue, she then said she'd put me on hold to talk to somebody else, and cut me off/hung up on me. It took me about 45 minutes to get to a human the first time and after a 30-minute wait on my call back I decided to bail.

EBSA: The EBSA online form has a broken script on all three of my browsers, so I called the regional office today and got a very nice and patient guy who told me that unfortunately EBSA has no jurisdiction over government employers. He knew his stuff and talked about employers doing a QNEC, and I noted that my problem was my employer believed they had no obligation to do so and that IRS guidance wasn't sufficiently explicit.

The local IRS office is right near me, so I went ahead and made an appointment for Monday. I suspect this will be way out of the wheelhouse of the folks there, but maybe they can bump the question to the right people. I'm not so much on a crusade as deeply curious and slightly alarmed--there really seems to be no mechanism for reporting issues with this kind of retirement plan outside of the employer themselves.
Please do update us on the outcome of the meeting. Thank you very much.

ERISA Stone
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by ERISA Stone » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:15 am

student wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:12 am
fposte wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:40 am
I'm not the OP but I've been posting on this thread about my similar situation at what's clearly a different state university with a 457b. The current status isn't good. I sent the Benefits Office a link to that IRS page about fixing plan mistakes, and they state that that page only applies to 401ks and to matches; since it very clearly doesn't apply only to matches, I'm not filled with confidence in their judgment.

I contacted the Employee Plans Customer Account Services division of the IRS, and that did not go well. She stated that she did not understand what I was asking ("Does this page of IRS guidance about retirement plans apply to governmental 457b plans as well?" seemed pretty clear to me, so I really was at a loss to break it down) and told me I could get guidance for my tax filings in the online information or through third-party tax software. I said this was not a personal tax issue, she then said she'd put me on hold to talk to somebody else, and cut me off/hung up on me. It took me about 45 minutes to get to a human the first time and after a 30-minute wait on my call back I decided to bail.

EBSA: The EBSA online form has a broken script on all three of my browsers, so I called the regional office today and got a very nice and patient guy who told me that unfortunately EBSA has no jurisdiction over government employers. He knew his stuff and talked about employers doing a QNEC, and I noted that my problem was my employer believed they had no obligation to do so and that IRS guidance wasn't sufficiently explicit.

The local IRS office is right near me, so I went ahead and made an appointment for Monday. I suspect this will be way out of the wheelhouse of the folks there, but maybe they can bump the question to the right people. I'm not so much on a crusade as deeply curious and slightly alarmed--there really seems to be no mechanism for reporting issues with this kind of retirement plan outside of the employer themselves.
Please do update us on the outcome of the meeting. Thank you very much.
You could try the DOL but I don't know how far it would get you.

ERISA Stone
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by ERISA Stone » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:21 am

Bayoufrogg wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:45 am
I was recently in a similar situation. Company drafted $1500 from my check every month x 4 months to be deposited in a 457b account. I was the first person in the company to utilize this account. The money never showed up in the 457b until after the 4th months draft and many, many emails/calls.

The withdrawals are finally deposited. The small amount of gains are not worth the headache in trying to get that back from the company. Compensation for my time is extremely unlikely, so thats not worth it either.

I just took it as a loss, decided I was pleased that the issue was corrected going forward, and moved on.
This is actually a much bigger deal than the OP's situation from the DOL's perspective. If the employer held your money in an operating account instead of some sort of holding account within the plan, this would likely be a prohibited transaction. If a plan takes too long to deposit EE funds to a plan (generally more than 7 business days) then lost earnings are due. This isn't the bad part. In addition, the plan is supposed to mark on the annual Form 5500 filing that it was late with deposits.

Full disclosure - it's been 4 years since I've had a full caseload. However, up until then, if a client marked that there were late contribution deposits, EVERY client was audited - I had a 100% audit rate.

fposte
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by fposte » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:26 am

ERISA Stone wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:15 am

You could try the DOL but I don't know how far it would get you.
Yes, good thought--I could poke around to see if there's any non-EBSA connection there that would be useful. Another avenue is that there might be state's attorney people who'd be helpful; my state's office is generally pretty good.

Even if I wanted to pay, I don't think a private tax attorney would be likely to know or be taken seriously by the university. It's really an arcane intragovernmental point, but it's one that seems to me to have some significant implications.

fposte
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Re: Want to verify correction procedure IRS requires when employer fails to make 403b retirement contributions for emplo

Post by fposte » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:52 pm

Another inconclusive update: I had an appointment with the local IRS office about this today. The nice woman said that it was a really interesting question and dug around a fair bit, some of it in places I'd seen and some I hadn't. Ultimately, she had the same blurry end as I did; there just aren't explicit statements readily findable for governmental 457bs, and the information that is out there is mostly for what employer could do with the IRS in the event of a correction, not what an employee can do if something goes wrong. She gave me a few suggestions of further places to contact, and her advice was to write an actual postal letter, not to call or to email.

So I figure I'll do it, because it'll only take a second and I'm really curious and slightly concerned about what seems to be a lack of oversight here; I'll report back if I hear anything. In the meantime, keep your eyes on those 457b accounts, I guess.

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