2018 ACA rates now live....

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BruDude
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2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BruDude » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:45 am

https://healthcare.gov/see-plans/?u ... ovdelivery

Cliffs: Subsidy = good, no subsidy = you're about to be broke

Sample rates:

55, 62, 22, 20, 16 year old in 24219 - cheapest plan $2,548.63/month

62 and 60 year old in 20120 - cheapest plan $1,493.83/month

35, 35, 8, 8 year old in 28105 - cheapest plan $1,527.96/month

FullYellowJacket
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by FullYellowJacket » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:01 pm

Looks like California still has reasonable health care prices. If we did not have employer insurance it looks like we would be paying 800 per month for a bronze health plan for a family of 3.

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Soaker
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Soaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:18 pm

BruDude wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:45 am
Cliffs: Subsidy = good, no subsidy = you're about to be broke
Pretty much. My estimated tax credit ($1031/month in 2018, up from $454/month in 2017 based on no change in income) exceeds the gross premium for my Bronze plan ($992/month) so my monthly net is $0.

I could opt for lower-deductible Silver plans ($140 net or $201 net per month) or the Gold plan ($407 net per month).

mrsbetsy
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by mrsbetsy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:39 pm

Our CA Bronze plan for two healthy 56 and 60 year olds went from $1110 a month to $1225 a month, which is a 10% increase. No subsidies.


We will be fine :sharebeer

Betsy

BruDude
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BruDude » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:44 pm

mrsbetsy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:39 pm
Our CA Bronze plan for two healthy 56 and 60 year olds went from $1110 a month to $1225 a month, which is a 10% increase. No subsidies.


We will be fine :sharebeer

Betsy
CA seems to be the only state where rates haven't been hit by huge increases. $1200/mo for a Bronze plan for two people is still crazy, but it is what it is...

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indexfundfan
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by indexfundfan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:45 pm

Up 57% for me in GA for the same HSA bronze plan for family of four.
My signature has been deleted.

mrsbetsy
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by mrsbetsy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:53 pm

You can find an interesting chart about the cost of healthcare going back as far as 1960 here:

https://thebalance.com/causes-of-ri ... ts-4064878

You'll find the data reveals the biggest increases were through the 80's.

CA was one of the first states to embrace the ACA. I'm not sure if that's the reason why premiums seem to be the most stable.

We were thrilled with the move to untie healthcare from the employer because it meant we could go into business for ourselves and dispense with the golden handcuffs. While we miss the employer subsidy in covering the premium expense, it's been a worthwhile venture despite funding the whole thing ourselves.

Betsy

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ray.james
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by ray.james » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:56 pm

mrsbetsy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:53 pm
You can find an interesting chart about the cost of healthcare going back as far as 1960 here:

https://thebalance.com/causes-of-ri ... ts-4064878

Betsy
That is very interesting data. When they say national spending it is public spending only or both public+private?
When in doubt, /forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939

Bacchus01
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Bacchus01 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:59 pm

Interesting.

In 53022

44, 49, 16, 12, 8

$50K income - plans are free with tax subsidy
$100K income - Bronze ~$300, Silver ~$750, Gold ~$1,250
$200K income - Bronze ~$2,000, Silver $2,500, $3,000 Gold

These aren't nearly as bad as I thought they'd be. A lot, but I think if I retired today I could keep my "income" near the line to get it for basically free. Looks like around $90K for me with a family of 5.

2015
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by 2015 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:20 pm

mrsbetsy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:39 pm
Our CA Bronze plan for two healthy 56 and 60 year olds went from $1110 a month to $1225 a month, which is a 10% increase. No subsidies.


We will be fine :sharebeer

Betsy
+1
I'll be enrolling for the first time into CA Silver 87 plan $102/mo premium, $650 deductible, and $2450 max OOP as a result of PTC and subsidies. I'll be saving approx. $4K over COBRA. It's great to be retired and able to manipulate your income.

Only downside is as a result of PTC, medical deductions are reduced thereby increasing income tax by $600 over last year. One thing I can't figure out, using the PTC figures from CoveredCA, tax software modeling shows an excess advance payment of PTC, resulting in a $300 excess advance premium tax credit repayment. I called CoveredCA and they told me I won't know the final reconciliation until I get form 1095-A in 01/19. For a savings of $4K, I can live with this.
Last edited by 2015 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Conch55
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Conch55 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:30 pm

Southeastern VA, 2 adults 62 and 61

Silver plan 2017 (PPO): 1640/mo
Silver plan 2018 (HMO): 2850/mo

Not same providers for both years since the 2017 insurer dropped out of the market leaving only one. Subsidy seems to have been adjusted to cover the increase for those who qualify.

BruDude
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BruDude » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:32 pm

Conch55 wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:30 pm
Southeastern VA, 2 adults 62 and 61

Silver plan 2017 (PPO): 1640/mo
Silver plan 2018 (HMO): 2850/mo

Not same providers for both years since the 2017 insurer dropped out of the market leaving only one. Subsidy seems to have been adjusted to cover the increase for those who qualify.
Just absurd...not that it matters to most people here but a lot of insurance companies are also paying $0 commission to agents now, so there won't be too many agents sticking around to help people with this stuff. I'm going to have to tell a lot of my clients the bad news next week. Can't work for two months for free...Cigna and Kaiser have already said they will pay nothing, Anthem probably won't be far behind.

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HomerJ
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by HomerJ » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:43 pm

Interesting.

I entered in 66221, which is Kansas

Then for me and my spouse, I entered in 55 (male) and 63 (female). That's not our real ages, but the ages when I expect to retire.

We plan to spend around $80,000 a year.

Estimated income, I put in $60,000, making the assumption that we will get the extra $20,000 from taxable accounts. We got a subsidy of $1800/month - most plans were in the $1800 - $2600 range, so that's a solid subsidy, making health-care cost between $0/month (with large deductibles and large co-pays) or $800/month (with smaller deductibles and small co-pays)

For fun I put in $80,000 estimated income instead, and our subsidy dropped to ZERO. So there's a big cliff in there somewhere. It's fairly important to manage your income in retirement if you are using the ACA system. Makes a huge difference.
Last edited by HomerJ on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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susa
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by susa » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:46 pm

Our Blue Cross Blue Shield - Silver plan costs go down 25%, new premium is about $31/mo for 2 persons while all other limits and deductibles are same. Subsidy is about $1800/mo.

Very nice indeed !

mattsm
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by mattsm » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:48 pm

Had about a 20% increase in Texas from $240 -> $280 for a 34 year old for a Bronze plan.

Little better plan though, now HSA compatible so tax savings should offset the increase. We also went from 3 to 4 insurers in our county (Travis county, Austin, TX) at least. The rest of Texas is not so lucky.

Single parent in Houston seemed to have a similar 20% increase, no new insurers, and an already higher base price ($510 -> $630)

-M

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Watty
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Watty » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:21 pm

It would be good to be cautious about looking at the numbers, they seem to be having some problems.

When I enter a number a bit below 400% of the poverty level for two people, $62,000, and with one person already on medicare it is saying that there would be a $1,403 per month tax credit for the one person who is 61. That is higher than the highest gold or silver plan. About half the premiums with the subsidy are zero and the rest are less than $20 a month. I wish that was true but I suspect that there is a problem in the calculation.

Nyc10036
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Nyc10036 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:31 pm

Is anyone familiar with the differences between Horizon BCBS OMNIA and their Advantage EPO?
As I recall their list of hospitals is smaller for OMNIA.

Right now the OMNIA Silver and the Advantage EPO Bronze have roughy similar premiums but with $2100 higher deductible for the Bronze plan.

ERISA Stone
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by ERISA Stone » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:34 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:45 pm
Up 57% for me in GA for the same HSA bronze plan for family of four.
Only 49% in GA for me.

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indexfundfan
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by indexfundfan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:42 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:34 pm
indexfundfan wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:45 pm
Up 57% for me in GA for the same HSA bronze plan for family of four.
Only 49% in GA for me.
LOL. Yes, 49% is better than me.
My signature has been deleted.

rrppve
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by rrppve » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:54 pm

BruDude wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:44 pm
mrsbetsy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:39 pm
Our CA Bronze plan for two healthy 56 and 60 year olds went from $1110 a month to $1225 a month, which is a 10% increase. No subsidies.


We will be fine :sharebeer

Betsy
CA seems to be the only state where rates haven't been hit by huge increases. $1200/mo for a Bronze plan for two people is still crazy, but it is what it is...
Unfortunately even in the Golden State of CA, this coming year has brought huge increases for those of us who do not receive subsidies. My unsubsidized Silver 70 PPO went up 50% in part due to the withdrawal of CSR payments. If bought off exchange, where there is no CSR withdrawal surcharge, the price still increased 30%. I could downshift to a Bronze PPO and get coverage at a 5% increase over last year's Silver plan, but there would be a large increase in OOPs.

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:13 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:21 pm
It would be good to be cautious about looking at the numbers, they seem to be having some problems.

When I enter a number a bit below 400% of the poverty level for two people, $62,000, and with one person already on medicare it is saying that there would be a $1,403 per month tax credit for the one person who is 61. That is higher than the highest gold or silver plan. About half the premiums with the subsidy are zero and the rest are less than $20 a month. I wish that was true but I suspect that there is a problem in the calculation.
I do not think this is an error. This is due to the presidential directive to eliminate the CSR. Insurance companies jacked the prices of the silver plans way up, and the consequence is if you qualify for the premium subsidy, you get a very large subsidy. For an AGR of $32,000 in our area, one can buy a silver plan for $133.73/month (after subsidy) with a $2,500 deductible (family) and $4,900 out of pocket max (family). A PCP office visit is $5 and a specialist visit is $50. ER visit is $150. Premium subsidy is $1,482/month. This seems to be a good deal.

mrsbetsy
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by mrsbetsy » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:15 pm

That's incredible! I wonder why there is so much variation in CA. We are renewing the exact same policy and the increase was negligible.

Interesting....

We also receive NO subsidies and pay for it all ourselves.
Last edited by mrsbetsy on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BackOfTheNet
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BackOfTheNet » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:16 pm

When my wife and I got married in 2006 we paid $87 per month on the open market for this plan:

Image

Obviously you could not sell this plan today as it does not cover enough, but it was great for that stage in our life.

http://agents.norvax.com/quote/brochure ... _05-07.pdf

pintail07
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by pintail07 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:23 pm

Where do subsidies come from? If 80% of people on the ACA receive subsidies, it really is a government plan.

michaeljc70
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:29 pm

The good news for us is my favorite doctor is in the cheapest bronze plan. It is slightly less than we are paying now. The bad news is pretty much everything is out of pocket until you hit the $7150/$14,300 deductible and it is an HMO. Before we could go see our primary doctor for no cost (PPO).

In Chicago, the plans on the exchange range from $680-$1300 (this is for a 40 and 47 year old, non smokers). Given our plan went up 45% last year, it doesn't seem terrible this year. Our insurance company pulled out of all Individual plans for 2018, so I cannot directly compare.

The cheaper plans have very limited networks (no surprise there). I would say I can go in-network to only 15% of the hospitals within a 10 mile radius if I go with the cheapest bronze.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BarbK
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BarbK » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:39 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:21 pm
It would be good to be cautious about looking at the numbers, they seem to be having some problems.

When I enter a number a bit below 400% of the poverty level for two people, $62,000, and with one person already on medicare it is saying that there would be a $1,403 per month tax credit for the one person who is 61. That is higher than the highest gold or silver plan. About half the premiums with the subsidy are zero and the rest are less than $20 a month. I wish that was true but I suspect that there is a problem in the calculation.
I agree.
We never got subsidies before for 2 people, and now only need insurance for one due to medicare, and the subsidies can not be correct. Entered male - 61, I tested a lot of income levels up to 62K and it was calculating $1500+ subsidy, but if I went to the individual providers site for the calculation, it was about $231. Same on two different provider sites.

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:40 pm

pintail07 wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:23 pm
Where do subsidies come from? If 80% of people on the ACA receive subsidies, it really is a government plan.
Yes, since courts have declared reimbursing CSRs to be illegal, by raising silver plan rates, insurance companies are getting larger subsidies for premiums that offset the CSRs they have to pay out but are not being reimbursed for. It is a back door way of accomplishing the same thing, with some interesting results (like gold plans being cheaper than silver plans in some cases). That's my understanding.

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:54 pm

BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:39 pm
Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:21 pm
It would be good to be cautious about looking at the numbers, they seem to be having some problems.

When I enter a number a bit below 400% of the poverty level for two people, $62,000, and with one person already on medicare it is saying that there would be a $1,403 per month tax credit for the one person who is 61. That is higher than the highest gold or silver plan. About half the premiums with the subsidy are zero and the rest are less than $20 a month. I wish that was true but I suspect that there is a problem in the calculation.
I agree.
We never got subsidies before for 2 people, and now only need insurance for one due to medicare, and the subsidies can not be correct. Entered male - 61, I tested a lot of income levels up to 62K and it was calculating $1500+ subsidy, but if I went to the individual providers site for the calculation, it was about $231. Same on two different provider sites.
In PA, the higher silver plan premium (and accompanying higher subsidy) only apply to plans offered on the exchange. You can buy the exact same silver plan off of the exchange at a much lower price, but no subsidy. So...anyone who qualifies for the subsidy will buy on the exchange. Anyone who does not qualify for the subsidy and wants a silver plan will not buy it on the exchange.

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Watty
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Watty » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:08 pm

BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:39 pm
Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:21 pm
It would be good to be cautious about looking at the numbers, they seem to be having some problems.

When I enter a number a bit below 400% of the poverty level for two people, $62,000, and with one person already on medicare it is saying that there would be a $1,403 per month tax credit for the one person who is 61. That is higher than the highest gold or silver plan. About half the premiums with the subsidy are zero and the rest are less than $20 a month. I wish that was true but I suspect that there is a problem in the calculation.
I agree.
We never got subsidies before for 2 people, and now only need insurance for one due to medicare, and the subsidies can not be correct. Entered male - 61, I tested a lot of income levels up to 62K and it was calculating $1500+ subsidy, but if I went to the individual providers site for the calculation, it was about $231. Same on two different provider sites.
I was playing with it some more and it gives the same $1,403 subsidy when I uncheck the box that says she gets medicare. I suspect that what the subsidy would be if we were both getting ACA insurance. I will check again in a few days.

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:10 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:08 pm
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:39 pm
Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:21 pm
It would be good to be cautious about looking at the numbers, they seem to be having some problems.

When I enter a number a bit below 400% of the poverty level for two people, $62,000, and with one person already on medicare it is saying that there would be a $1,403 per month tax credit for the one person who is 61. That is higher than the highest gold or silver plan. About half the premiums with the subsidy are zero and the rest are less than $20 a month. I wish that was true but I suspect that there is a problem in the calculation.
I agree.
We never got subsidies before for 2 people, and now only need insurance for one due to medicare, and the subsidies can not be correct. Entered male - 61, I tested a lot of income levels up to 62K and it was calculating $1500+ subsidy, but if I went to the individual providers site for the calculation, it was about $231. Same on two different provider sites.
I was playing with it some more and it gives the same $1,403 subsidy when I uncheck the box that says she gets medicare. I suspect that what the subsidy would be if we were both getting ACA insurance. I will check again in a few days.
Yes, one or two receiving ACA does not change the premium if you are subsidized. The premium you actually pay depends on your agi, not on the number insured.

theplayer11
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by theplayer11 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:21 pm

not live in my state

BarbK
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BarbK » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:38 pm

Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:08 pm
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:39 pm
Watty wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:21 pm
It would be good to be cautious about looking at the numbers, they seem to be having some problems.

When I enter a number a bit below 400% of the poverty level for two people, $62,000, and with one person already on medicare it is saying that there would be a $1,403 per month tax credit for the one person who is 61. That is higher than the highest gold or silver plan. About half the premiums with the subsidy are zero and the rest are less than $20 a month. I wish that was true but I suspect that there is a problem in the calculation.
I agree.
We never got subsidies before for 2 people, and now only need insurance for one due to medicare, and the subsidies can not be correct. Entered male - 61, I tested a lot of income levels up to 62K and it was calculating $1500+ subsidy, but if I went to the individual providers site for the calculation, it was about $231. Same on two different provider sites.
I was playing with it some more and it gives the same $1,403 subsidy when I uncheck the box that says she gets medicare. I suspect that what the subsidy would be if we were both getting ACA insurance. I will check again in a few days.
I did basically the same thing, except changed my age to 64 and the smallest subsidy I got was $1506 for $64960 of income. For $65K income, the subsidy was 0. We always paid full fare for the last 3 years and did Roth conversions to ease the pain. Even for 2018 when I thought we could get a subsidy was thinking it was $230, thought the Roth Conversions would be more advantageous.

I just don't see how these subsidies are right.

2015
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by 2015 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:41 pm

rrppve wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:54 pm
BruDude wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:44 pm
mrsbetsy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:39 pm
Our CA Bronze plan for two healthy 56 and 60 year olds went from $1110 a month to $1225 a month, which is a 10% increase. No subsidies.


We will be fine :sharebeer

Betsy
CA seems to be the only state where rates haven't been hit by huge increases. $1200/mo for a Bronze plan for two people is still crazy, but it is what it is...
Unfortunately even in the Golden State of CA, this coming year has brought huge increases for those of us who do not receive subsidies. My unsubsidized Silver 70 PPO went up 50% in part due to the withdrawal of CSR payments. If bought off exchange, where there is no CSR withdrawal surcharge, the price still increased 30%. I could downshift to a Bronze PPO and get coverage at a 5% increase over last year's Silver plan, but there would be a large increase in OOPs.
From everything I've read, the bright spot for Californians is managing MAGI to obtain PTC's along with subsidies. Retired, I'm doing this by managing MAGI up to the 200% FPL. If you're in a position to manage MAGI, these links may help:

http://gocurrycracker.com/obamacare-opt ... etirement/

http://retireearlyhomepage.com/obam ... 017r2.html

https://doughroller.net/personal-fi ... -retirees/

https://kff.org/health-reform/issue ... ut-health/

https://coveredca.com/PDFs/FPL-chart.pdf (chart for 2017, but you get the idea)

munemaker
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:54 pm

BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:38 pm

I ... changed my age to 64 and the smallest subsidy I got was $1506 for $64960 of income. For $65K income, the subsidy was 0.

I just don't see how these subsidies are right.
The FPL is $16,240. Subsidies take effect under 400% of FPL which is $64,960. So it makes sense that the subsidy is zero at $65,000. You need to stay under $64,960. They are right!

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HomerJ
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by HomerJ » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:05 pm

munemaker wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:54 pm
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:38 pm

I ... changed my age to 64 and the smallest subsidy I got was $1506 for $64960 of income. For $65K income, the subsidy was 0.

I just don't see how these subsidies are right.
The FPL is $16,240. Subsidies take effect under 400% of FPL which is $64,960. So it makes sense that the subsidy is zero at $65,000. You need to stay under $64,960. They are right!
Subsidies dropping off a cliff like that is just asking for everyone to game the system.

Health care costs you $18,000 a year more if you make $65,000 instead of $64,960.

ConcernedKid
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by ConcernedKid » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:20 pm

I do not receive any subsidies. There's only one HSA eligible plan on the Washington exchange for the Seattle area. The price went from $264/mo. for the Silver plan to $264/mo. for the Bronze plan. There were options for a Silver and Bronze plan last year. This year there is only a Bronze plan for last year's Silver price. I'll take it. No complaints here.

hicabob
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by hicabob » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:24 pm

The bronze unsubsidized hsa with kaiser in central california for a 61yo went up from 640 to 700 and is the lowest of about 4 options.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:27 pm

Kaiser Silver plan for my 26 year old daughter went up from $253 to $259, about 2%. But this year her business will cover her health insurance otherwise that’s how much she will have to pay. No subsidy.

cheapskate
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by cheapskate » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:55 pm

Northern CA. Looks like PPO plans are completely out of reach for me (family of 5). Blue Shield Platinum is $5300, Gold is $4000, Silver is $3500.

Once I quit my job (which I am hoping to do soon), it looks like high deductible Kaiser HMO plan is the only option. I can get that for $1300 with deductibles of $5500/$11000.

BarbK
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:27 am

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BarbK » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:11 pm

HomerJ wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:05 pm
munemaker wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:54 pm
BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:38 pm

I ... changed my age to 64 and the smallest subsidy I got was $1506 for $64960 of income. For $65K income, the subsidy was 0.

I just don't see how these subsidies are right.
The FPL is $16,240. Subsidies take effect under 400% of FPL which is $64,960. So it makes sense that the subsidy is zero at $65,000. You need to stay under $64,960. They are right!
Subsidies dropping off a cliff like that is just asking for everyone to game the system.

Health care costs you $18,000 a year more if you make $65,000 instead of $64,960.
Yes; we paid over $50K in premiums for the last 3 years. At least we were healthy and never made a deductible. I

So I went to one of the providers to calculate the subsidy and for $64K it comes out to $190. I think the providers are using 2017 calculators because when I entered $64960, it came back with zero subsidy.

How could that be? a $190 subsidy for basically equal income in 2017 and a subsidy of $1506 for 2018.

munemaker
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:46 pm

BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:11 pm
I think the providers are using 2017 calculators because when I entered $64960, it came back with zero subsidy.

How could that be? a $190 subsidy for basically equal income in 2017 and a subsidy of $1506 for 2018.
Try entering $64,900.

BarbK
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:27 am

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by BarbK » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:08 pm

This is the subsidy calculated from one of the providers for 2018 plans:
Your income of $64,900 for a family of 2 likely qualifies for an estimated tax credit of $183 per month.


Another provider with 2018 plans, calculated a subsidy for $190 but for $64K, entering $64900 produced 0 subsidy.


This is from healthcare.gov for an income of $64,900 for 2018 plans:
Estimated savings overview
Person 1 (age 61) may be eligible for a premium tax credit that lowers the monthly costs of health insurance.
Person 2 (age 65) doesn't appear to be eligible for a premium tax credit or other savings.
Estimated premium tax credit

Based on the information you provided, it looks like your household qualifies for a premium tax credit of
$1,507 per month

User avatar
Soaker
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Soaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:24 pm

To eliminate any uncertainty about the tax credit, I would pull a Form 8962 and bang through a pro-forma for 2018 using the SLCSP Healthcare.gov is showing you. My tax credit matched what Healthcare.gov is telling me.

talzara
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by talzara » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:41 pm

BruDude wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:44 pm
mrsbetsy wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:39 pm
Our CA Bronze plan for two healthy 56 and 60 year olds went from $1110 a month to $1225 a month, which is a 10% increase. No subsidies.


We will be fine :sharebeer

Betsy
CA seems to be the only state where rates haven't been hit by huge increases. $1200/mo for a Bronze plan for two people is still crazy, but it is what it is...
US GDP is $57000 per capita. We spend 18% of GDP on healthcare, or $10300 per capita. A Bronze Plan covers 60% of actuarial costs, giving a pure premium of $6156 per capita. ACA plans have a Medical Loss Ratio of 80%, so the total premium is $7695 per capita. The neutral age for ACA plans is age 52. A 56-year-old will cost about 20% more, and a 60-year-old will cost about 40% more.

This works out to an expected premium of about $1670 per month for two people. $1200 is not crazy. It's cheap.

What's crazy is that the premium grew by 10%. What's even crazier is that we think 10% is a good deal, because people in other states are seeing 50% increases.

US GDP per capita is only growing by 1.0%. Growing older by 1 year only adds 3.5% to the premium. Anything above 4.5% means the market is not sustainable. It's just a matter of whether the market collapses in 2 years or 20 years. It can't keep going up like this forever.

Tanelorn
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Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Tanelorn » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:07 pm

talzara wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:41 pm
Anything above 4.5% means the market is not sustainable. It's just a matter of whether the market collapses in 2 years or 20 years. It can't keep going up like this forever.
Benchmark Silver went up 25% from 2016 to 2017, and another 38% from 2017 to 2018 according to this article. Several states are looking at 50-70% increases.

https://cnbc.com/2017/10/25/most-po ... -2018.html

talzara
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:40 pm

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by talzara » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:29 pm

BackOfTheNet wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:16 pm
When my wife and I got married in 2006 we paid $87 per month on the open market for this plan:

Obviously you could not sell this plan today as it does not cover enough, but it was great for that stage in our life.

http://agents.norvax.com/quote/brochure ... _05-07.pdf
You can't sell that plan today because it was medically-underwritten.
To be eligible for Health Net Individual & Family PPO you must: be under the age of 65, not be eligible for Medicare, reside continuously in our service area, and meet our application and underwriting requirements for coverage.
5% of Americans account for 50% of healthcare costs.

A medically-underwritten plan can be very cheap for those who qualify.

munemaker
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:49 pm

BarbK wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:11 pm

How could that be? a $190 subsidy for basically equal income in 2017 and a subsidy of $1506 for 2018.
Sorry, I did not answer your question correctly the first time.

The reason is...the subsidies are up because the premiums are way up. Since insurance companies are no longer being reimbursed by the government for the CSRs they have to pay to lower income people, they have raised the rates for the silver plan way up. As you see, this results in higher subsidies that go to the insurance company. This is how they recover the money they have to pay in CSRs.

From Forbes: https://forbes.com/sites/nextavenue ... 9aa14e155d
Premiums look like they’ll be much higher than last year for many people, but they actually won’t be. Although the Congressional Budget Office said premiums will rise 15 to 20%, on average, this year, that’s not actually the whole story. Some 84% of enrollees in the ACA exchanges will qualify for premium tax credits (people with incomes under $48,240 and families of four with incomes under $98,400, for example) and the size of those credits increases along with the price of a mid-level (Silver) insurance plan. So when the premiums of Silver plans — by far, the most popular plans — go up, their tax credit subsidies go up accordingly.

Gryphon
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 11:43 am

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Gryphon » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 pm

63304 (St Charles County, MO)
54 year old male

We lost one of our two insurers for 2018, and a new one came in to replace it, so a lot of the plans are different than last year. We had only one HSA eligible plan last year, there are none this year.

Bronze: Last year we had 8 plans ranging from $403 to $577. This year we have 3 plans ranging from $470 to $737. Only one of the plans is the same as last year, it went up 25%. Average Bronze plan cost increased from $507 to $576, a 13.6% increase.

Silver: Last year we had 13 plans ranging from $510 to $653. This year we have 5 plans ranging from $703 to $846. None of the plans is exactly the same as last year so a direct comparison is difficult, but the 2nd lowest cost silver plan went from $518 to $776, a 49.8% increase. Average Silver plan cost increased from $595 to $782 (up 31.4%).

Gold: Last year we had two plans at $668 and $850. This year we have two plans at $1063 and $1080.

Platinum: We had no platinum plans last year, and have none this year.

It appears that neither insurer will let me keep my primary doctor that I've had for over a decade now. (The insurer that left our market would have let me keep her.) One of the insurers will let me keep my allergist, at least.
Last edited by Gryphon on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

munemaker
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:14 pm

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by munemaker » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:13 pm

Gryphon wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:06 pm

Silver: Last year we had 13 plans ranging from $510 to $653. This year we have 5 plans ranging from $703 to $846. None of the plans is exactly the same as last year so a direct comparison is difficult, but the 2nd lowest cost silver plan went from $518 to $776, a 49.8% increase. Average Silver plan cost increased from $595 to $782 (up 31.4%).
You apparently are not subsidized. If not, get a quote for a silver plan off of the exchange. You will find that if you buy the same silver plan off of the exchange, it did not go up anywhere near 31.4% to 49.8% that you see on the exchange. For the reason, see my previous post.

Gryphon
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 11:43 am

Re: 2018 ACA rates now live....

Post by Gryphon » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:25 pm

You apparently are not subsidized. If not, get a quote for a silver plan off of the exchange. You will find that if you buy the same silver plan off of the exchange, it did not go up anywhere near 31.4% to 49.8% that you see on the exchange. For the reason, see my previous post.
You are correct, I get no subsidy. I'll take a look and see what's available off the exchange. Fortunately, I'm on my former employer's insurance until the end of August thanks to COBRA, so I don't have to make any decisions for a while.

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