To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

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Masterblaster
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Masterblaster » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:11 pm

If you really want to save some money just wait a few years. Can this car ever live up to all the hype ?

Think of this car as fashion. The posers would love to be seen in the latest thing. And when it’s no longer so unique and cool then prices will moderate. When Grannies start buying Model 3’s then the fashion crowd will move on !

I’m old enough to remember 98 VW Beetles selling for $10-$15k over MSRP. Ditto for the Chrysler PT Cruiser. and other cars. Remember “Dubs” ?

15 years from now you can tell your friends… I can’t believe I paid $50k for a Model 3. And they didn’t even have hyperglide back then ! What was I thinkin ?

iamlucky13
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by iamlucky13 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:38 pm

Masterblaster wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:11 pm
If you really want to save some money just wait a few years. Can this car ever live up to all the hype ?
Not entirely. Even Musk has publicly tried to temper the hype. I got the impression they saw a falloff in Model S interest they attributed to unrealistic expectations that the 3 will be a near equal to the S.

But I'm not certain waiting a few years will save money. It's going to have to depend what their production cost works out to, and demand will also play a role. They can't sell the car at a loss, and even if Musk is personally very passionate about keeping the 3 at $35,000 regardless of how strong demand is, it is no longer strictly his call. He has shareholders to answer too and $21 billion worth of liabilities accrued. Being both CEO and chairman gives him a huge amount of say, but eventually stockholders will want to start seeing returns on the $60 billion in market cap, and in the meantime there will be payments to make on the debt.

neilpilot
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by neilpilot » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:36 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:06 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:01 am
The tax code on the rebate states that "The vehicle is acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer, and not for resale."

I realize that this is likely hard to prove, but discussion on flipping an EV should consider mentioning that this should be done without claiming any tax rebates, consistent with the Boglehead policy on illegal activities.
As I understand it, the original purchaser gets the tax credit. i don't think there is a required duration for ownership. Nothing illegal about it.

The unlimited supercharging is associated with the automobile and not the owner.
ETA: I don't recall if Model 3 got unlimited supercharging, if it required a referral, or was not offered at all.
Other poster said "it may make sense to buy it and flip it". IRS tax code IRC30 excludes vehicles acquired for resale. If you purchase an EV intendind to flip it, some might argue that does not meet the legal definition of "acquired for use".

Model 3, as well as all other models ordered after 1/15/17, get an annual credit for 400kWh charging annually. That's maybe 1250 miles in the model 3.

EHEngineer
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by EHEngineer » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:00 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:36 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:06 pm
neilpilot wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:01 am
The tax code on the rebate states that "The vehicle is acquired for use or lease by the taxpayer, and not for resale."

I realize that this is likely hard to prove, but discussion on flipping an EV should consider mentioning that this should be done without claiming any tax rebates, consistent with the Boglehead policy on illegal activities.
As I understand it, the original purchaser gets the tax credit. i don't think there is a required duration for ownership. Nothing illegal about it.

The unlimited supercharging is associated with the automobile and not the owner.
ETA: I don't recall if Model 3 got unlimited supercharging, if it required a referral, or was not offered at all.
Other poster said "it may make sense to buy it and flip it". IRS tax code IRC30 excludes vehicles acquired for resale. If you purchase an EV intendind to flip it, some might argue that does not meet the legal definition of "acquired for use".

Model 3, as well as all other models ordered after 1/15/17, get an annual credit for 400kWh charging annually. That's maybe 1250 miles in the model 3.
My understanding is that the IRS code disallowing the tax credit for vehicles intended for resale prevents a reseller from avoiding sales tax AND utilizing the tax credit. If you choose to purchase the car for resale (and have the appropriate business registrations) I believe you can avoid paying sales tax, but you won't get the tax credit. The IRS wording forces a choice, take the credit or pay the sales tax.
Or, you can ... decline to let me, a stranger on the Internet, egg you on to an exercise in time-wasting, and you could say "I'm probably OK and I don't care about it that much." -Nisiprius

neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by neilpilot » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:06 pm

EHEngineer wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:00 pm

My understanding is that the IRS code disallowing the tax credit for vehicles intended for resale prevents a reseller from avoiding sales tax AND utilizing the tax credit. If you choose to purchase the car for resale (and have the appropriate business registrations) I believe you can avoid paying sales tax, but you won't get the tax credit. The IRS wording forces a choice, take the credit or pay the sales tax.
IRC 30 outlines the EV tax credit, independent of IRS regulations regarding sales tax. Of course, payment of sales tax on a vehicle purchase, at least in my experience, is a state matter not regulated by the IRS. If you are talking about EV credit offered by a state, that's beyond the scope of my comment and would not apply to my purchase as a TN resident.

https://irs.gov/businesses/plug-in- ... nd-irc-30d

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:31 pm

I bought my Tesla for my own use. When I filed for the $7500 tax credit, I supplied the VIN, but I don't recall indicating whether or not I still owned the car. Let's say that I had decided, after owning it for a short period of time, that all the naysayers on BH were right, and that the car was a hypemobile, and I had someone equally deluded who wanted to buy it. Would that be illegal? I can't imagine that it would be.

The other reason I recommended buying it is that I believe that after driving the car for a short period of time, OP would decide to keep it. I'm surprised how many people express opinions about Tesla without so much as a test drive. The driving experience is profoundly different than an ICE car.

wrongfunds
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by wrongfunds » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:48 pm

I am of the type who would have more fun buying well depreciated S550 for $20K and willing to spend another $10K to keep it on the road for next few years than putting $40-$60K in Tesla. But I might have trouble convincing this to the rest of the family who would much rather prefer me not having to have the headache of caring and feeding finicky German beast with expensive appetite!

squirm
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by squirm » Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:04 pm

You'll only live once. If you can easily afford the car, enjoy it.

clutchied
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by clutchied » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:02 pm

same boat.

once you get up to $60k you could just buy a nice used model S.

My window IIRC is oct / Jan or something like that.



I'm a huge fanboy but I keep finding amazing used car deals and the thought of spending $50k on a car has my stomach turning...

I would really like an EV though.

letsgobobby
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by letsgobobby » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:40 pm

An EV with 200 mile range is really perfect for my 80 mile roundtrip commute. It's too far for a Leaf, but the idea of never buying gas again for 17,000 miles per year is attractive. At 25 mpg I'm buying 680 gallons per year or about $2000 at current prices. Including other driving I think I could save $1500 per year with an EV (net savings of using electricity vs gas) and our electricity is 75% renewable (hydro) so it's a clean choice, as well.

If I knew the Tesla would be as reliable as a Toyota, I'd be much more inclined to do it.

gips
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by gips » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:33 am

I believe the $7,500 incentive will last through the third quarter of 2018 and perhaps the entire year. My delivery estimate is 2Q 2018 and my plan is to purchase the base model with as few options as possible. I'm of the opinion that $27,500 is going to be a very good deal.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:41 am

gips wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:33 am
I believe the $7,500 incentive will last through the third quarter of 2018 and perhaps the entire year. My delivery estimate is 2Q 2018 and my plan is to purchase the base model with as few options as possible. I'm of the opinion that $27,500 is going to be a very good deal.
Look and see what incentives, if any, your state offers.
https://tesla.com/support/incentives

letsgobobby
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:18 am

I canceled.

wrongfunds
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by wrongfunds » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:55 am

Anybody knows the reason why Mass only give $1K for Telsa vs $2.5K for all other electric or hybrids?

Chims77
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Chims77 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:17 am

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:41 am
gips wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:33 am
I believe the $7,500 incentive will last through the third quarter of 2018 and perhaps the entire year. My delivery estimate is 2Q 2018 and my plan is to purchase the base model with as few options as possible. I'm of the opinion that $27,500 is going to be a very good deal.
Look and see what incentives, if any, your state offers.
https://tesla.com/support/incentives
I'm in the same boat - the reason i put a deposit down is because i want the base model. If i have to wait for it, so be it. The other thing i haven't seen much mention of in this thread is the reason for going electric, that part just seems to be missing from this discussion. I fly an inordinate amount of miles for work, it's just the nature of my job and if i could get around the flying part i would. Since i log upwards of 250k miles a year my carbon footprint is off the charts. I offset my carbon footprint by making payments when i can, but my overarching reason for going with Tesla is because it's electric and the car doesn't look ridiculous ( cue BMW I3 and Prius )
We are slowly converting our home to being green with the objective of being totally of the grid and as energy thus becoming as energy efficient as we can. The car is just another piece of the puzzle.

clutchied
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by clutchied » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:32 am

clutchied wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:02 pm
same boat.

once you get up to $60k you could just buy a nice used model S.

My window IIRC is oct / Jan or something like that.



I'm a huge fanboy but I keep finding amazing used car deals and the thought of spending $50k on a car has my stomach turning...

I would really like an EV though.

Quoting myself as a followup.

I bought a used BMW i3 w/ 16,000 miles on it for cheap. I made the mistake of going and driving one and it's a superb little car. I was shocked initially b/c I had written it off b/c of how ugly it is... but the passenger compartment is quite large and it's incredibly fun to drive. The regen on the car is amazing. I don't think I've used the brakes in more than a week...

Whenever I get into my gas car now I just feel like a barbarian. It truly is a sublime experience driving electric.

I cancelled my reservation; it was painful after waiting a year and a half. I still have mixed feelings about it as I am very much in favor of EV's and I am in the group that should be bearing the cost so others can have them at some point. I just couldn't do it :(.


One last thing. Ohio is deregulated for electricity so I can contract with various suppliers. I chose a 100% wind energy supplier and now my EV runs on wind energy. I feel pretty good about that, at least until my solar panels go up.

stoptothink
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by stoptothink » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:00 am

clutchied wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:32 am

I bought a used BMW i3 w/ 16,000 miles on it for cheap. I made the mistake of going and driving one and it's a superb little car. I was shocked initially b/c I had written it off b/c of how ugly it is... but the passenger compartment is quite large and it's incredibly fun to drive.
A few car magazines have labeled the i3 as possibly the worst handling car currently built by a major manufacturer. I've heard "terrible driver dynamics" a bunch of times, but this is the first time I've heard "incredibly fun to drive". Of course, I've never personally driven one.

p0nyboy
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by p0nyboy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:04 am

Buying a $60k car that only goes 220 real miles is a great idea...said no one ever.

I love the idea of electric self driving cars. They're just too expensive and the range isnt good enough yet. Plus tesla hasnt been profitable since it began. I think Musk is a genius and what he started will pave the way for mega companies like ford/gm to produce affordable electric/self driving cars. Musk is a snake oil salesman if you as me.

clutchied
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by clutchied » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:09 am

stoptothink wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:00 am
clutchied wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:32 am

I bought a used BMW i3 w/ 16,000 miles on it for cheap. I made the mistake of going and driving one and it's a superb little car. I was shocked initially b/c I had written it off b/c of how ugly it is... but the passenger compartment is quite large and it's incredibly fun to drive.
A few car magazines have labeled the i3 as possibly the worst handling car currently built by a major manufacturer. I've heard "terrible driver dynamics" a bunch of times, but this is the first time I've heard "incredibly fun to drive". Of course, I've never personally driven one.
It's a city commuting car on bike tires.

It's FAST, so fast it really catches you off guard. Lunging forward if requested to do so.

You can drive the car with just leaving your foot on the accelerator and using that to both accel and regen which brings you back to a stop. It's big inside and has a command style seating position which puts you up higher with lots of room everywhere.

So if you accept the car for what it is ( an urban commuter) it pretty much does that perfectly. Would I pay full price for it? No. Do I want bigger tires on it? Yes.

Did I choose it because it was fun to drive and hyper efficient? Yes.

clutchied
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by clutchied » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:10 am

p0nyboy wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:04 am
Buying a $60k car that only goes 220 real miles is a great idea...said no one ever.

I love the idea of electric self driving cars. They're just too expensive and the range isnt good enough yet. Plus tesla hasnt been profitable since it began. I think Musk is a genius and what he started will pave the way for mega companies like ford/gm to produce affordable electric/self driving cars. Musk is a snake oil salesman if you as me.
That statement is incredibly unfair to Elon Musk. It's also flat out false.

and just so you're not confused the $60k fully loaded model 3 does 310 miles.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:32 am

If Musk is a snake oil salesman, the world could use a few more like him. Everyone knows about his optimistic forecasts. Nothing new. He doesn't tell people to bid up the stock.

For such a young man, he has many companies that most of us would be proud to have started a single one of. Bring on some more snake oil salesmen.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TomatoTomahto » Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:40 am

clutchied wrote: I cancelled my reservation; it was painful after waiting a year and a half. I still have mixed feelings about it as I am very much in favor of EV's and I am in the group that should be bearing the cost so others can have them at some point. I just couldn't do it :(.
Thank you for doing your part; you are not obligated to subsidize, but it helps when you spread the word about EVs, and I'm sure some people will ask you when they see you. I'm glad to hear that the i3 is fun for you, since it looks a bit like BMW tried to make it look like only a mother could love it. 8-)

And, I also am amazed about regen. Yesterday, for a change, I charged to 100% for a long trip. Regen doesn't fully work until the SOC gets to 95% or so (in regular weather), and I was reminded again of how accustomed I was to slowing the car down by recharging it. I'm convinced that my brake pads will last 200k miles.

clutchied
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by clutchied » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:41 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:40 am
clutchied wrote: I cancelled my reservation; it was painful after waiting a year and a half. I still have mixed feelings about it as I am very much in favor of EV's and I am in the group that should be bearing the cost so others can have them at some point. I just couldn't do it :(.
Thank you for doing your part; you are not obligated to subsidize, but it helps when you spread the word about EVs, and I'm sure some people will ask you when they see you. I'm glad to hear that the i3 is fun for you, since it looks a bit like BMW tried to make it look like only a mother could love it. 8-)

And, I also am amazed about regen. Yesterday, for a change, I charged to 100% for a long trip. Regen doesn't fully work until the SOC gets to 95% or so (in regular weather), and I was reminded again of how accustomed I was to slowing the car down by recharging it. I'm convinced that my brake pads will last 200k miles.
It's the ugliest car I've ever owned and one of the reasons why I never initially considered it... but I like BMW's so I just happened to go drive one and blam! I couldn't get over how fun it was.

So I picked one up off a lease turn in and couldn't be happier.


I think if more people tried them they would find they really enjoy them. It's really an experience you need firsthand. Also you start asking yourself questions like "why would I use friction and bleed off heat to slow myself down?" "Why not recapture that energy?" "Why should I be breathing fumes that are toxic and bad for me?" "Why is my car so quiet and relaxing?"


anyways it's a great experience that I recommend to everyone and lend my car out as much as I can.

I used to think the EV movement wouldn't catch on but I think we've hit a tipping point and it's just a matter of time now. There's so many of them out there.

letsgobobby
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by letsgobobby » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:04 pm

clutchied wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:41 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:40 am
clutchied wrote: I cancelled my reservation; it was painful after waiting a year and a half. I still have mixed feelings about it as I am very much in favor of EV's and I am in the group that should be bearing the cost so others can have them at some point. I just couldn't do it :(.
Thank you for doing your part; you are not obligated to subsidize, but it helps when you spread the word about EVs, and I'm sure some people will ask you when they see you. I'm glad to hear that the i3 is fun for you, since it looks a bit like BMW tried to make it look like only a mother could love it. 8-)

And, I also am amazed about regen. Yesterday, for a change, I charged to 100% for a long trip. Regen doesn't fully work until the SOC gets to 95% or so (in regular weather), and I was reminded again of how accustomed I was to slowing the car down by recharging it. I'm convinced that my brake pads will last 200k miles.
It's the ugliest car I've ever owned and one of the reasons why I never initially considered it... but I like BMW's so I just happened to go drive one and blam! I couldn't get over how fun it was.

So I picked one up off a lease turn in and couldn't be happier.


I think if more people tried them they would find they really enjoy them. It's really an experience you need firsthand. Also you start asking yourself questions like "why would I use friction and bleed off heat to slow myself down?" "Why not recapture that energy?" "Why should I be breathing fumes that are toxic and bad for me?" "Why is my car so quiet and relaxing?"


anyways it's a great experience that I recommend to everyone and lend my car out as much as I can.

I used to think the EV movement wouldn't catch on but I think we've hit a tipping point and it's just a matter of time now. There's so many of them out there.
Can you say how much you paid and how many miles?

How is the road noise on the freeway?

I may have to get a new commuter car sooner than planned. I have a 75 mile roundtrip commute almost entirely on the freeway. We pay 8.5 cents for electricity and 75% of it is hydro so EV could be both economical and environmentally sound. But I can't stand road noise.

clutchied
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by clutchied » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:03 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:04 pm
clutchied wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:41 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:40 am
clutchied wrote: I cancelled my reservation; it was painful after waiting a year and a half. I still have mixed feelings about it as I am very much in favor of EV's and I am in the group that should be bearing the cost so others can have them at some point. I just couldn't do it :(.
Thank you for doing your part; you are not obligated to subsidize, but it helps when you spread the word about EVs, and I'm sure some people will ask you when they see you. I'm glad to hear that the i3 is fun for you, since it looks a bit like BMW tried to make it look like only a mother could love it. 8-)

And, I also am amazed about regen. Yesterday, for a change, I charged to 100% for a long trip. Regen doesn't fully work until the SOC gets to 95% or so (in regular weather), and I was reminded again of how accustomed I was to slowing the car down by recharging it. I'm convinced that my brake pads will last 200k miles.
It's the ugliest car I've ever owned and one of the reasons why I never initially considered it... but I like BMW's so I just happened to go drive one and blam! I couldn't get over how fun it was.

So I picked one up off a lease turn in and couldn't be happier.


I think if more people tried them they would find they really enjoy them. It's really an experience you need firsthand. Also you start asking yourself questions like "why would I use friction and bleed off heat to slow myself down?" "Why not recapture that energy?" "Why should I be breathing fumes that are toxic and bad for me?" "Why is my car so quiet and relaxing?"


anyways it's a great experience that I recommend to everyone and lend my car out as much as I can.

I used to think the EV movement wouldn't catch on but I think we've hit a tipping point and it's just a matter of time now. There's so many of them out there.
Can you say how much you paid and how many miles?

How is the road noise on the freeway?

I may have to get a new commuter car sooner than planned. I have a 75 mile roundtrip commute almost entirely on the freeway. We pay 8.5 cents for electricity and 75% of it is hydro so EV could be both economical and environmentally sound. But I can't stand road noise.
So I'll just say the i3 will not work for you unless you get a range extender or a newer model w/ the bigger battery. Range suffers significantly on the highway above 65mph unless you have a way to charge at work. The Newer i3 would work as it does like 115 to 125 miles.


I got a 2014 i3 w/ 16,500 miles for $17,500 no extender. They can be had for less but I found one fully optioned up w/ everything so I paid a bit more for the tech and harmon kardon system which was worth it for me. It has adaptive cruise (collision avoidance) and auto parking etc... DC fast charging which I believe is standard now. It has the bigger screen etc. You get the idea.

Road noise isn't bad, it's not sealed as well as my other BMW's but you're also going to notice wind noise instead of engine noise. The tires are pretty quiet. My E60 and E90 are both quieter(I think).

I'll see if I can run a decibel test on my phone.

hightower
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by hightower » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:38 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:02 am
I had reserved Tesla 3 when it was announced. I did it because $35K-$7.5K price was too attractive to NOT put my name on the list. According to the web site I can get the delivery by Dec-Feb time frame if I select the $49K car. This is with 310 miles + premium options package. That price still does NOT include 1) Color choice 2) non-dorky wheels 3)any self-drive capability. To have all that, it becomes $60K car.

Now BogleHead in me says plopping down $60K when I had convinced myself that I was going to buy $35K is extremely irresponsible. It is NOT that I NEED the $35K car to begin with! So purchasing $60K car seems to be insane. But I can not live with the bare bones $35K as it is equipped. The range is not enough and lack of expected standard comforts does not cut it. Financially, we can afford the $60K price tag.

I suspect many of you are probably facing the same dilemma. I would love to know what is your plan of action on taking delivery of Tesla Model 3.
It's a personal choice. I too would not spend 60k on a car, though I could afford it. I spent $47k on my BMW i3 ($39.5k after the tax credit) and that's
as much as I'd ever spend on a car (paid cash). I love the car and I'll probably keep it for at least the next 10 years, but I would never spend more than that. If I had a Tesla reservation ready to go at 49K, I'd probably go through with it, but I definitely wouldn't go for the $60k upgrades. Personally I think self-driving technology has decades to go before it's going to be safe enough to use and most of that is because no one else on the road has it yet. So paying for it now is just paying for a toy feature, but that's just my opinion.
You really have to ask yourself if you'd be happy with the car offered at 49k. If self-drive capability and color/wheel choice is really important to you, then don't cut corners, you're better off waiting.

hightower
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by hightower » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:46 pm

clutchied wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:03 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:04 pm
clutchied wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:41 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:40 am
clutchied wrote: I cancelled my reservation; it was painful after waiting a year and a half. I still have mixed feelings about it as I am very much in favor of EV's and I am in the group that should be bearing the cost so others can have them at some point. I just couldn't do it :(.
Thank you for doing your part; you are not obligated to subsidize, but it helps when you spread the word about EVs, and I'm sure some people will ask you when they see you. I'm glad to hear that the i3 is fun for you, since it looks a bit like BMW tried to make it look like only a mother could love it. 8-)

And, I also am amazed about regen. Yesterday, for a change, I charged to 100% for a long trip. Regen doesn't fully work until the SOC gets to 95% or so (in regular weather), and I was reminded again of how accustomed I was to slowing the car down by recharging it. I'm convinced that my brake pads will last 200k miles.
It's the ugliest car I've ever owned and one of the reasons why I never initially considered it... but I like BMW's so I just happened to go drive one and blam! I couldn't get over how fun it was.

So I picked one up off a lease turn in and couldn't be happier.


I think if more people tried them they would find they really enjoy them. It's really an experience you need firsthand. Also you start asking yourself questions like "why would I use friction and bleed off heat to slow myself down?" "Why not recapture that energy?" "Why should I be breathing fumes that are toxic and bad for me?" "Why is my car so quiet and relaxing?"


anyways it's a great experience that I recommend to everyone and lend my car out as much as I can.

I used to think the EV movement wouldn't catch on but I think we've hit a tipping point and it's just a matter of time now. There's so many of them out there.
Can you say how much you paid and how many miles?

How is the road noise on the freeway?

I may have to get a new commuter car sooner than planned. I have a 75 mile roundtrip commute almost entirely on the freeway. We pay 8.5 cents for electricity and 75% of it is hydro so EV could be both economical and environmentally sound. But I can't stand road noise.
So I'll just say the i3 will not work for you unless you get a range extender or a newer model w/ the bigger battery. Range suffers significantly on the highway above 65mph unless you have a way to charge at work. The Newer i3 would work as it does like 115 to 125 miles.


I got a 2014 i3 w/ 16,500 miles for $17,500 no extender. They can be had for less but I found one fully optioned up w/ everything so I paid a bit more for the tech and harmon kardon system which was worth it for me. It has adaptive cruise (collision avoidance) and auto parking etc... DC fast charging which I believe is standard now. It has the bigger screen etc. You get the idea.

Road noise isn't bad, it's not sealed as well as my other BMW's but you're also going to notice wind noise instead of engine noise. The tires are pretty quiet. My E60 and E90 are both quieter(I think).

I'll see if I can run a decibel test on my phone.
I have to chime in here. I own a pure electric i3 (non-range extender) with the 94 ah battery (a 2017 model). They get a lot better electric range than the range extender versions because you don't have the weight of the generator motor. In good weather 150-160 miles range is not hard to get. If you drive 75 mph with the heater or AC blasting in extreme weather the range would probably be closer to 110 or so. 75 miles round trip is totally doable with these cars. I drive 60 miles round trip every day. I can charge at work if I want, but rarely bother.
Road noise is like any other BMW IMO. The car itself is a blast to drive and a lot nicer on the interior than I expected. I genuinely love it.

letsgobobby
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by letsgobobby » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:54 pm

Is the 94 ah the 'bigger battery' or standard?

Anyway I see 2015 models with the range extender and around 10,000 miles for around $19k-$20k. Seems worth getting the REx.

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Abe
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Abe » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:56 pm

I don't like the idea of buying anything if it requires getting on a waiting list. But hey, I'm just an old man. :happy
Slow and steady wins the race.

btenny
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by btenny » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:04 pm

Latest reports out of Fremont suggest Tesla is having big league troubles with the Model 3. They are turning off parts orders big time instead of ramping up production. See below. And if you read the worst into this report this car may crash the cash flow and the whole company.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/411725 ... world-hurt

It is also note worthy that Audi announced they are ahead in self driving car technology race versus Tesla with their new Model A8. The new Model A8 has full level 3 self driving autopilot autonomy.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/408748 ... 3-autonomy

finite_difference
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by finite_difference » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:13 pm

I am confused. What’s the cost of the car?

1. You do know you can buy wheels for like a couple hundred each?

2. How much does it cost to get a different color?

The self-driving feature, the longer range, personally I wouldn’t need that. 220 miles seems fine as a daily driver. I also wonder that if in 5 years you could upgrade your battery pack? Same for the self-driving feature.

I agree that buying a $60k car is steep and wouldn’t do it unless you are still able max your retirement accounts.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

squirm
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by squirm » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:18 pm

If you listen to all the anti-teslas they've been saying and wanting the company to fall apart years ago... Shows their credibility... Which is none.


For those that want a quite plug in hybrid you might look into a plug-in clarity.

letsgobobby
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by letsgobobby » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm

It took just over 3 weeks to receive my refund in the mail.

Clark Howard recently opined that a used Tesla S is a much better deal than a new Model 3. He claims you can get a used S for the mid $40,000s, and believes it is a much better car than the 3. I don’t know much about the variations of the S but in high volume areas like California, I do see a number of them on sale in the $45,000-$55,000 range with 30k-50k miles.

Consumer Reports released the results of its annual reliability survey this month, and the Chevy Bolt moved way up. It seems to promise reliability not much different than a Toyota and the driving experience is described (by CR) as “shockingly good.”

If I needed a new commuting car today, I’d go test drive a Bolt. I’m hoping to squeeze out 3-4 more years from my current vehicle and will examine the landscape at the time.

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Leif
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Leif » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:14 pm

letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm
It took just over 3 weeks to receive my refund in the mail.

Clark Howard recently opined that a used Tesla S is a much better deal than a new Model 3. He claims you can get a used S for the mid $40,000s, and believes it is a much better car than the 3. I don’t know much about the variations of the S but in high volume areas like California, I do see a number of them on sale in the $45,000-$55,000 range with 30k-50k miles.
True, but the oldest cars have no autopilot. A bit newer has autopilot 1.0, which will not have full self drive. Did Clark mention that? Depends if you want EAP/FSD. I think the Tesla model S 85 are good cars with a great battery.
letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm
Consumer Reports released the results of its annual reliability survey this month, and the Chevy Bolt moved way up. It seems to promise reliability not much different than a Toyota and the driving experience is described (by CR) as “shockingly good.”
I agree for a commuter car. If I had a Bolt I would certainly want a ICE car or Tesla model S/X (with the supercharger network) for longer trips.
Investors should diversify across many asset-classes so that whatever happens, we will not have all our investments in underperforming asset classes and thereby fail to meet our goals-Taylor Larimore

emoore
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by emoore » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:29 pm

Leif wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:14 pm
letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm
It took just over 3 weeks to receive my refund in the mail.

Clark Howard recently opined that a used Tesla S is a much better deal than a new Model 3. He claims you can get a used S for the mid $40,000s, and believes it is a much better car than the 3. I don’t know much about the variations of the S but in high volume areas like California, I do see a number of them on sale in the $45,000-$55,000 range with 30k-50k miles.
True, but the oldest cars have no autopilot. A bit newer has autopilot 1.0, which will not have full self drive. Did Clark mention that? Depends if you want EAP/FSD. I think the Tesla model S 85 are good cars with a great battery.
letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm
Consumer Reports released the results of its annual reliability survey this month, and the Chevy Bolt moved way up. It seems to promise reliability not much different than a Toyota and the driving experience is described (by CR) as “shockingly good.”
I agree for a commuter car. If I had a Bolt I would certainly want a ICE car or Tesla model S/X (with the supercharger network) for longer trips.
Probably more economical to rent a car for road trips.

DanMahowny
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by DanMahowny » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:35 pm

I cancelled my Model 3 order. And shorted Tesla stock.

That's what I call a WIN-WIN.

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Leif
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Leif » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:36 pm

emoore wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:29 pm
Leif wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:14 pm
I agree for a commuter car. If I had a Bolt I would certainly want a ICE car or Tesla model S/X (with the supercharger network) for longer trips.
Probably more economical to rent a car for road trips.
True. I currently have a Model S and an Accord. I'm not planning to buy any more fossil cars.
Investors should diversify across many asset-classes so that whatever happens, we will not have all our investments in underperforming asset classes and thereby fail to meet our goals-Taylor Larimore

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Leif
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Leif » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:39 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:35 pm
I cancelled my Model 3 order. And shorted Tesla stock.

That's what I call a WIN-WIN.
I guess we will see. People in Tesla shortsville have experienced a lot pain in the past.
Investors should diversify across many asset-classes so that whatever happens, we will not have all our investments in underperforming asset classes and thereby fail to meet our goals-Taylor Larimore

squirm
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by squirm » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:18 pm

DanMahowny wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:35 pm
I cancelled my Model 3 order. And shorted Tesla stock.

That's what I call a WIN-WIN.
Date and price, I've seen too many people on TV and online claim they bought at the bottom or shorted at the top, but of course there's never any proof. My favorite was when Ron Insana was pressed about his calls on cnbc he admitted he was using a virtual portfolio.
I noticed on Fastmoney the goons sweep their bad trades under the rug and never mention them again.

squirm
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by squirm » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:19 pm

Leif wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:36 pm
emoore wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:29 pm
Leif wrote:
Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:14 pm
I agree for a commuter car. If I had a Bolt I would certainly want a ICE car or Tesla model S/X (with the supercharger network) for longer trips.
Probably more economical to rent a cat for road trips.
True. I currently have a Model S and an Accord. I'm not planning to buy any more fossil cars.
Fossil cars are so yesteryear.

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TimeRunner
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TimeRunner » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:54 pm

Returned recently from a multi-state motorcycle camping trip starting in Calif and heading thru NV, UT, CO, NM, and AZ before returning. Once we got East of Palmdale, CA we saw no Tesla's, no German cars other than a few VWs, no Mazdas, no Jags, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, or other high end cars. Probably 5 of 10 vehicles were Chevys; the rest were GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai. One notable exception was a Porsche Panamera with a high-end mountain bike on the roof rack outside Zion. We thought, what do you do if you breakdown in Hanksville, UT?

I returned to Coastal Calif with a new appreciation for what a big chunk of the West drives and the unreality of what folks drive here compared to there. It ultimately resets my criteria for my next car.
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | Endurance athletes are the SatuMedia of sports. | "I like people - I just don't want to be around 'em." - Russell Gordy

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Tycoon
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Tycoon » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:05 pm

TimeRunner wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:54 pm
Returned recently from a multi-state motorcycle camping trip starting in Calif and heading thru NV, UT, CO, NM, and AZ before returning. Once we got East of Palmdale, CA we saw no Tesla's, no German cars other than a few VWs, no Mazdas, no Jags, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, or other high end cars. Probably 5 of 10 vehicles were Chevys; the rest were GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai. One notable exception was a Porsche Panamera with a high-end mountain bike on the roof rack outside Zion. We thought, what do you do if you breakdown in Hanksville, UT?

I returned to Coastal Calif with a new appreciation for what a big chunk of the West drives and the unreality of what folks drive here compared to there. It ultimately resets my criteria for my next car.
:!:
...I might be just beginning | I might be near the end. Enya | | C'est la vie

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just frank
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by just frank » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:55 am

letsgobobby wrote:
Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm
It took just over 3 weeks to receive my refund in the mail.

Clark Howard recently opined that a used Tesla S is a much better deal than a new Model 3. He claims you can get a used S for the mid $40,000s, and believes it is a much better car than the 3. I don’t know much about the variations of the S but in high volume areas like California, I do see a number of them on sale in the $45,000-$55,000 range with 30k-50k miles.

Consumer Reports released the results of its annual reliability survey this month, and the Chevy Bolt moved way up. It seems to promise reliability not much different than a Toyota and the driving experience is described (by CR) as “shockingly good.”

If I needed a new commuting car today, I’d go test drive a Bolt. I’m hoping to squeeze out 3-4 more years from my current vehicle and will examine the landscape at the time.
I'm lined up for a restyled 2018 MY LEAF that will lease a LOT cheaper than the Bolt, has the same seating and more cargo, and will have a 150 mile EPA range that should suffice for your commuting needs. I should get it feb-mar 2018, and figure the lease would be $250/mo nicely equipped.

In your case, in two years you can get a 2019 LEAF with 225 mile range for slightly more. You would of course, need to ask about overage miles, as the standard lease is 12k miles/yr.

In 4 years...you could get a 2018 off-lease cheap.

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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by just frank » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:01 am

TimeRunner wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:54 pm
Returned recently from a multi-state motorcycle camping trip starting in Calif and heading thru NV, UT, CO, NM, and AZ before returning. Once we got East of Palmdale, CA we saw no Tesla's, no German cars other than a few VWs, no Mazdas, no Jags, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, or other high end cars. Probably 5 of 10 vehicles were Chevys; the rest were GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai. One notable exception was a Porsche Panamera with a high-end mountain bike on the roof rack outside Zion. We thought, what do you do if you breakdown in Hanksville, UT?

I returned to Coastal Calif with a new appreciation for what a big chunk of the West drives and the unreality of what folks drive here compared to there. It ultimately resets my criteria for my next car.
If it makes you feel better...I live a ways east of California, in a non-CARB state with zero EV incentives. And I see multiple EVs every time I leave the house...Teslas, LEAFs, i3s. Its about money. Well-heeled two-car families in commuter suburbs are buying plenty of EVs. If I lived in back-country Utah or Montana and had to drive 50 miles to get to a hardware store...then probably not.

Chevy and Nissan also make long range EVs, and have dealers across the US.

wrongfunds
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:31 am

Probably 5 of 10 vehicles were Chevys; the rest were GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai.
That is very surprising! You should have see lots and lots of Chryslers/Dodge. If you are doing the tourist loops, most cars you will see will be rental cars especially if they are somewhat new.

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TimeRunner
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by TimeRunner » Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:09 am

wrongfunds wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:31 am
Probably 5 of 10 vehicles were Chevys; the rest were GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai.
That is very surprising! You should have see lots and lots of Chryslers/Dodge. If you are doing the tourist loops, most cars you will see will be rental cars especially if they are somewhat new.
Agree, but, for the most part we purposefully stayed off the tourist routes. (Been there, done that.) It will be interesting to see when Big 3 EVs will become more common in rural areas. When most pickup trucks are EVs, the world will truly have changed out there.
One cannot enlighten the unconscious. | Endurance athletes are the SatuMedia of sports. | "I like people - I just don't want to be around 'em." - Russell Gordy

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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by stoptothink » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:08 am

TimeRunner wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:54 pm
Returned recently from a multi-state motorcycle camping trip starting in Calif and heading thru NV, UT, CO, NM, and AZ before returning. Once we got East of Palmdale, CA we saw no Tesla's, no German cars other than a few VWs, no Mazdas, no Jags, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, or other high end cars. Probably 5 of 10 vehicles were Chevys; the rest were GM, Ford, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai. One notable exception was a Porsche Panamera with a high-end mountain bike on the roof rack outside Zion. We thought, what do you do if you breakdown in Hanksville, UT?

I returned to Coastal Calif with a new appreciation for what a big chunk of the West drives and the unreality of what folks drive here compared to there. It ultimately resets my criteria for my next car.
I live in the fastest growing area of Utah - booming tech sector. Occasionally I see a Tesla, but it is quite rare. EVs are rare enough around here that when we visit California (at least 3x/yr to visit family), one of the first things we notice is that it seems that ever other car is a Tesla. As far as total numbers, from the data I've seen, sales of EVs isn't exactly growing that fast in most of the country. FWIW, our next car will almost certainly be an EV commuter (probably used Leaf).

mckstpat
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by mckstpat » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:39 am

Here is a breakdown of the prices and options:
35K - Base Price of car. (220 mile Range)
9K - Extended Battery (Range goes from the 220 miles to 310 miles)
5K - Premium Interior
5K - Autopilot
3K - Full Self Driving Capability (Hasn't been released yet but the option is there now....costs 4K to upgrade later)
1.5K - Upgraded Wheels
1K - Paint color other than black
Total with all options 59.5K

Initial deliveries are for the Model with the extended battery and premium interior. 49K (My delivery date shows as Nov 2018-Jan 2018)
Future deliveries are for base model only..35K (My delivery date shows as Jan-Mar 2018, if i choose to forgo the first option and wait).
All wheel drive options are scheduled for Jul-Sept 2018 (If i choose to forgo the first two options and wait for all wheel drive for which pricing doesn't seem to be released yet.

The dates that I listed above are specific to me. Other people may have different dates. (I am in Chicago and made my reservation on 3-31)

https://teslarati.com/tesla-model-3 ... 0-deposit/
(the link where i got the prices above from)

wrongfunds
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by wrongfunds » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:55 pm

Great! Now tell us which one are you planning to take the delivery of?

Wallyt4r
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Re: To take or not to take delivery of Tesla 3

Post by Wallyt4r » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:53 am

I would cancel. That is too much money to pay for an unproven model in it's first year of production. In my opinion the Tesla's are all about image. I think the Nissan Leaf is the smart buy for this type of run around town vehicle. YMMV.

Also while I think Elon Musk is a smart guy I think he is smart because he has made billions off of the taxpayers. One day this money will run out and I hope his businesses are established enough to survive without taxpayer money. If not the Tesla's will be a piece of automotive history much like the Delorean's are.

http://latimes.com/business/la-fi-h ... story.html

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