Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:48 am

Looking at the timeline for the J.P.Morgan incident:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070904124 ... _dave.html

Oct 3: the theft occurred

Dec 1: J.P. Morgan indicated (in writing) that the investigation was closed. They offered no reimbursement.

Two weeks later: Dave contacted MSNBC. MSNBC contacted J.P.Morgan. Morgan indicated that their continuing investigation had born fruit and the the money would be returned to Dave before Christmas.

Maybe I am a cynic, but I think that Morgan just claimed that the money was recovered, that way they could avoid the PR disaster without having to change their policies on not reimbursing in these situations.

As far as I can tell, the legal protections are no better now then they were then.

PS: The article recommended contacting [email protected]

David Scubadiver
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by David Scubadiver » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:11 am

Financial institutions are 100% liable for unauthorized transactions. And more so when they allow them to happen and send you a lettter after the fact to contact them if it was unauthorized. What is going on there is that they suspect fraud and want to start the clock running for you to fix the problem because the law limits there libility if nothing is said once you are on notice.

I would file a complaint regardless of what is prognoses and especially so If they are making you wait 2 months to be made whole.

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:34 am

David Scubadiver wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:11 am
Financial institutions are 100% liable for unauthorized transactions.
This is a dangerous myth. You can find plenty of information that debunks it, like for instance:
You’d assume you wouldn’t suffer a loss if someone fraudulently withdrew money from any type of account, whether bank, brokerage, credit card or retirement plan. But that’s not the case.

While there are laws that limit your losses if your credit or debit cards are compromised, there aren’t specific laws protecting you from cybertheft-related losses in your brokerage account.
https://moneytalksnews.com/ask-stac ... nt-hacked/

But I guess word does not get around, since there have been few publicized hacking incidents involving retirement accounts.

Timely reporting in writing is necessary but not sufficient for retirement accounts.

David Scubadiver
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by David Scubadiver » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:55 am

TRUSt me. When a bank or broker authorizes a stranger to Change an email address or password they bank or broker is 100% liable. It isn’t like the person gave his log in credentials to a crook. The bank breached its duty of care and can’t hope to defend itself where the client did nothing wrong.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:05 pm

brak wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:26 am
As always, your advice is great. Here'y plan of attack at this point: 1. give the police this week to call me to see if they were able to light a fire under Transamerica; 2. after police call me, I call Transamerica this week to get a status report; 2. I call Regions Banks this week to see what they have found; 4. If results at this point are not satisfactory I will call a lawyer and see what he suggests and also talk with him about engaging social media. How does that sound?
Whoa! Wait. I thought you said you had a lawyer. It sounds as if you know a lawyer. Or you have talked to a lawyer.

I would turn this entire mess over to an attorney at this point and quit spinning my own wheels with all these people.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by brak » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:16 pm

Doom&Gloom - I have already talked with an attorney, have not as yet retained him. Opinion seems to be split here as to when is the best time to bring an attorney if I am reading it right. That's why I put down the sequence of events as I see it. Thanks,

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Thrifty Femme
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Thrifty Femme » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:18 pm

This is ridiculous. You need to go to the media ASAP. Clark Howard, network news, Twitter, etc. There is such a things a bad publicity, and it will help you get your father's money back much faster.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by rrppve » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:37 pm

brak wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:16 pm
Doom&Gloom - I have already talked with an attorney, have not as yet retained him. Opinion seems to be split here as to when is the best time to bring an attorney if I am reading it right. That's why I put down the sequence of events as I see it. Thanks,
I'd send the forceful demand letter that I mentioned up thread before retaining the attorney to possibly save yourself some dough. You give TA one last chance to make it right and make it clear that you're not prepared to wait any longer. You've waited long enough. There is no reason TA should not restore the account as long as you agree not to transfer it for some time to allow completion of their investigation. Was your Dad making withdrawals from it? He should be allowed to continue his usual level of withdrawals, especially if RMDs are required.
You can also go to the media anytime. The Haggler at the NY Times is another potential outlet. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Mordoch » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:42 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:34 am
This is a dangerous myth. You can find plenty of information that debunks it, like for instance:

https://moneytalksnews.com/ask-stac ... unt-hacked.
As noted the article basically states that in a case like the OP's, they should get reimbursed. Cases where this does not apply according to the article involve circumstances where the victim was responsible for a password being compromised or the like in a way that did not occur in this case. (I.E. a lack of negligence on the part of the OP which makes a huge difference legally speaking.) TransAmerica is in a very weak position legally in this case.

It does sound like the OP is getting closer to a point where it at least starts making sense to formally file complaints if he feels he is simply not getting anywhere with the company and they are stonewalling him. Having said that, it look like he actually has at least 2 years for an SEC complaint. While it sounds like there are cases where the FINRA complaint has less than the 6 year deadline listed in various places, he still has time there as well. This means any idea he is running into an immediate deadline in formally filing a complaint is wrong.

Having said this, we are approaching a point where TransAmerica has enough information that it is getting increasingly unreasonable in my view that they have not reimbursed you yet and there is a question about how much longer the OP should be "nice" and mostly wait for them to get to a point in their investigation where they reimburse you. Given the issue of the actual amount of money in the account, starting with threatening an SEC complaint and going to any of the press options that will listen (it would be best to be specific about some of those options if you actually make this threat) may be the best way to prompt them to moving towards actual reimbursement. (The argument against getting a lawyer too involved in this stage would be the expense involved, although at some point having the lawyer draft a letter threatening future legal action and waiting to see if this gets TransAmerica to move should be an option, although I would consider the other steps I just mentioned first.)

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:14 pm

Mordoch wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:42 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:34 am
This is a dangerous myth. You can find plenty of information that debunks it, like for instance:

https://moneytalksnews.com/ask-stac ... unt-hacked.
As noted the article basically states that in a case like the OP's, they should get reimbursed. Cases where this does not apply according to the article involve circumstances where the victim was responsible for a password being compromised or the like in a way that did not occur in this case. (I.E. a lack of negligence on the part of the OP which makes a huge difference legally speaking.) TransAmerica is in a very weak position legally in this case.

It does sound like the OP is getting closer to a point where it at least starts making sense to formally file complaints if he feels he is simply not getting anywhere with the company and they are stonewalling him. Having said that, it look like he actually has at least 2 years for an SEC complaint. While it sounds like there are cases where the FINRA complaint has less than the 6 year deadline listed in various places, he still has time there as well. This means any idea he is running into an immediate deadline in formally filing a complaint is wrong.

Having said this, we are approaching a point where TransAmerica has enough information that it is getting increasingly unreasonable in my view that they have not reimbursed you yet and there is a question about how much longer the OP should be "nice" and mostly wait for them to get to a point in their investigation where they reimburse you. Given the issue of the actual amount of money in the account, starting with threatening an SEC complaint and going to any of the press options that will listen (it would be best to be specific about some of those options if you actually make this threat) may be the best way to prompt them to moving towards actual reimbursement. (The argument against getting a lawyer too involved in this stage would be the expense involved, although at some point having the lawyer draft a letter threatening future legal action and waiting to see if this gets TransAmerica to move should be an option, although I would consider the other steps I just mentioned first.)
It's a myth that all financial institutions are subject to the same reimbursement laws. If this were a personal bank account, then the money would be reimbursed if the breach was reported in a timely manner, it's the law. He would not be having to pressure the bank over reimbursement. The law is different for a brokerage firm. It's much harder to get them to pay up. Read the links that I have provided, this is barking obvious.

There was a long civil case where a business bank account (which does not have the same protections as a personal bank account, these accounts are more like brokerage accounts in terms of legal protections) was hacked. A judge ruled that the bank was negligent. But don't recall if there were still appeals left. The point is that brokerage accounts, credit cards, and personal bank accounts play by different rules.

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm

Mordoch wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:42 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:34 am
This is a dangerous myth. You can find plenty of information that debunks it, like for instance:

https://moneytalksnews.com/ask-stac ... unt-hacked.
As noted the article basically states that in a case like the OP's, they should get reimbursed. Cases where this does not apply according to the article involve circumstances where the victim was responsible for a password being compromised or the like in a way that did not occur in this case. (I.E. a lack of negligence on the part of the OP which makes a huge difference legally speaking.) TransAmerica is in a very weak position legally in this case.

It does sound like the OP is getting closer to a point where it at least starts making sense to formally file complaints if he feels he is simply not getting anywhere with the company and they are stonewalling him. Having said that, it look like he actually has at least 2 years for an SEC complaint. While it sounds like there are cases where the FINRA complaint has less than the 6 year deadline listed in various places, he still has time there as well. This means any idea he is running into an immediate deadline in formally filing a complaint is wrong.

Having said this, we are approaching a point where TransAmerica has enough information that it is getting increasingly unreasonable in my view that they have not reimbursed you yet and there is a question about how much longer the OP should be "nice" and mostly wait for them to get to a point in their investigation where they reimburse you. Given the issue of the actual amount of money in the account, starting with threatening an SEC complaint and going to any of the press options that will listen (it would be best to be specific about some of those options if you actually make this threat) may be the best way to prompt them to moving towards actual reimbursement. (The argument against getting a lawyer too involved in this stage would be the expense involved, although at some point having the lawyer draft a letter threatening future legal action and waiting to see if this gets TransAmerica to move should be an option, although I would consider the other steps I just mentioned first.)
There was a clear cut case involving the TSP. They don't reimburse if they cannot find a fault in their system, period. Unlike a private firm they are not very concerned about adverse publicity. It's a myth to say that all financial firms are required to play by the same rules:

https://fedsmith.com/2007/01/30/sec ... -from-tsp/

Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab could adopt the same policy, but they don't. Transamerica may be trying play by the same rules as the TSP, it is perfectly legal for them to do do, but they are more sensitive to publicity.
Last edited by tadamsmar on Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by samsoes » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:01 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm
...Ameritrade may be trying play by the same rules as the TSP, it is perfectly legal for them to do do, but they are more sensitive to publicity.
I've been following this thread closely; I believe Transamerica is the firm in question here, not Ameritrade.
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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:11 pm

samsoes wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:01 pm
tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm
...Ameritrade may be trying play by the same rules as the TSP, it is perfectly legal for them to do do, but they are more sensitive to publicity.
I've been following this thread closely; I believe Transamerica is the firm in question here, not Ameritrade.
Thanks, I corrected it.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by EvenSteven5280 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:55 pm

brak wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:18 am
1. contacting the hospital from which my father's IRA originated and getting their take on it, since Transamerica's caller ID indicates that the first call that originated the entire fraud process came from that hospital's main number .
It is highly likely, almost a certainty, that the fraudster was "spoofing" the phone number to make it appear that the call was coming from the hospital. All he had to do was look up the hospitals number to use. It is very easy and a very common tactic for fraudsters to spoof phone numbers. Highly likely he was nowhere near the hospital when he made the call, even though the caller ID showed to Transamerica that the call coming from inside the hospital.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Yukon » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:46 pm

Thrifty Femme wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:18 pm
This is ridiculous. You need to go to the media ASAP. Clark Howard, network news, Twitter, etc. There is such a things a bad publicity, and it will help you get your father's money back much faster.
I agree with this sentiment. The OP is showing a ridiculous amount of patience; so much so it has me wondering if there is more to the story. Clark Howard would eat this one up. I'd call the state attorney general, too. Hopefully, the funds are eventually returned but I wouldn't sit on waiting for more information from the perpetrator.
Don't Work Forever.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by mptfan » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:53 pm

Mordoch wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:16 pm
TransAmerica is looking at ultimately losing their legal case if it gets to that point...
You say that as if it is a given, but I'm not so sure. Consider what letsgobobby wrote...

The problem is your dad presumably knew or should have known that TA did not require all these additional layers of security (password, voice verification, 2 factor authentication), and still proceeded to have a business relationship with them. It’s not as if TA promised these steps and then did not follow them. They never made such promises and likely aren’t obligated to have them.

For example I have voice verification set up at Vanguard and assume if Vanguard permitted fraud on my account by not requiring voice verification, they would have some liability. But Vanguard doesn’t offer... I don’t know... biometric scanning. If they fail to require a fingerprint and as a result fraud occurs, does that increase their liability? They never promised to check fingerprints... they never took my fingerprint... I do business with them anyway.
I eat risk for breakfast. :)

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by mptfan » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:56 pm

tadamsmar wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:01 pm
There are very few cases, and some are a decade old and links are disappearing from the internet.
That's not a coincidence.
I eat risk for breakfast. :)

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by TravelGeek » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:21 pm

mptfan wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:53 pm
You say that as if it is a given, but I'm not so sure. Consider what letsgobobby wrote...

The problem is your dad presumably knew or should have known that TA did not require all these additional layers of security (password, voice verification, 2 factor authentication), and still proceeded to have a business relationship with them.
Let's not forget that the OP's father is 98 years old. I don't know if there are many 98 year-olds that know what voice verification or 2-factor authentication is. And I would bet that when he made the decision to proceed to have a business relationship with them, those technologies were probably not available or widely used.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by brak » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Murdoch - I assure you that there is not more to the case than I am disclosing. I plan to begin pushing on Transamerica shortly. I simply want to wait until our police department has dealt with them and I can find out from Regions Bank whatever I can find out, so that I have as much knowledge as possible. I usually find that the more I know the more persuasive I can be. I will not have any problem pressuring them, I will not have any problem using the attorney as long as I am convinced that he can do some things that I cannot do. I am a bit intimidated by going public with this. I assume it would be my elderly father who would be in the spotlight, he is in frail health at 98, and I wouldn't want any more stress to be placed on him. Any input on this would be appreciated.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by brak » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:37 pm

Oh one other point which may or may not mean anything. Someone was asking why the account was with Transamerica? It was the hospital at which my father worked that hired Transamerica to be the custodian of all of the hospital IRAs. I asked my father if he remembers ever getting a custodian agreement from Transamerica or signing anything, and he says he doesn't - while his memory is still good, it might be difficult to remember such a thing. All I know is that he does not have any paperwork to that effect - I have gone through his file cabinets, and he has always been a pretty compulsive filer.
One other thought - do you think it would make sense the hospital and ask whether any other former employees have been subjected to IRA fraud, and to also let them know how Transamerica has been dragging their feet?

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Wakefield1 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:24 pm

brak wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:37 pm
Oh one other point which may or may not mean anything. Someone was asking why the account was with Transamerica? It was the hospital at which my father worked that hired Transamerica to be the custodian of all of the hospital IRAs. I asked my father if he remembers ever getting a custodian agreement from Transamerica or signing anything, and he says he doesn't - while his memory is still good, it might be difficult to remember such a thing. All I know is that he does not have any paperwork to that effect - I have gone through his file cabinets, and he has always been a pretty compulsive filer.

One other thought - do you think it would make sense the hospital and ask whether any other former employees have been subjected to IRA fraud, and to also let them know how Transamerica has been dragging their feet?
That sounds like a good idea.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by letsgobobby » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:29 pm

brak wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:37 pm
Oh one other point which may or may not mean anything. Someone was asking why the account was with Transamerica? It was the hospital at which my father worked that hired Transamerica to be the custodian of all of the hospital IRAs. I asked my father if he remembers ever getting a custodian agreement from Transamerica or signing anything, and he says he doesn't - while his memory is still good, it might be difficult to remember such a thing. All I know is that he does not have any paperwork to that effect - I have gone through his file cabinets, and he has always been a pretty compulsive filer.
One other thought - do you think it would make sense the hospital and ask whether any other former employees have been subjected to IRA fraud, and to also let them know how Transamerica has been dragging their feet?
your dad could have switched IRA providers at any time, right?

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:32 pm

This thread has run its course and is locked (derailed into a legal discussion, getting contentious). As a reminder, see: Acceptable Topics and Subforum Guidelines
This is an investing and personal finance forum. We also maintain a subforum that allow our members to discuss consumer goods and services and recreational activities. Anything else is considered "Off Topic" and is not acceptable on this forum.
Also see the disclaimer at the bottom of every page:
No guarantees are made as to the accuracy of the information on this site or the appropriateness of any advice to your particular situation.
Update: See below.
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:09 pm

Upon receiving a request by the OP and another member, this thread is unlocked to continue the discussion.

Legal advice is off-topic in this forum. Several posts and replies were removed.

Please state your concerns in a civil, factual manner to help answer the OP's questions which are:

brak wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:30 am
My elderly father just called me and informed me that he was just notified by the company that holds one of his IRA's that all of the money has been withdrawn from the account. They also gave him a number to call in the event that this was an unauthorized withdrawal. This was an unauthorized withdrawal, so I am assuming that my father has been the victim of identity theft. I have three questions: 1. what rights does he have to recoup the money that was withdrawn from his IRA without his authorization? 2. what steps should he undertake to protect investments he has at other institutions, such as Vanguard and Wells Fargo?, and 3. is there anything else he needs to do? Thank you.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by brak » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:47 pm

Thank you Lady Geek. I very much appreciate it.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Wakefield1 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:31 pm

Thank you. I would like to keep up with the eventual outcome of this case,whether the victim gets made whole,and whether the case is solved in such a way as to stop the perp(s) from getting more victims. I hope it makes a good detective story where the white hat wins.

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:34 am

This article covers a number of similar recent cases.
If thieves ransack my 401(k) or similar retirement account, will anybody reimburse me?

Probably. So far, people who work in this area tell me investment companies have reimbursed all the money victims had in their accounts if it’s clear that identity thieves stole their money.

That doesn’t mean you should relax. It’s your life savings; take steps to protect your financial future.
http://myajc.com/business/kempner-t ... pUiHg1cNN/

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by LarryAllen » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:20 pm

My sympathies to the OP and his family. Online fraud is a very common problem. I am so sorry for your dad and for you for all the time you are having to spend on this. I assume Transamerica will do the right thing here as the dollar amount is too small for all the bad press they could face. It just might take a while. I probably would not spend the money on an attorney yet as I don't think you'll get that back. However, after a reasonable time if still not getting the money then I would hire counsel. I am not sure what's reasonable. 60 days maybe!? I would be sure to file/follow all claims forms/procedures possible with TA.

The problems faced here and comments by others are scary and valuable at the same time. Great food for thought for all of us.

Good luck to us all!

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by remomnyc » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:39 pm

Is there an equivalent elsewhere to The Haggler from the New York Times. The Haggler retired in June, but other media outlets may have a similar consumer advocate. That would be a great place to report your father's story and apply pressure to Transamerica to do right by him.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Call_Me_Op » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:39 pm

I am glad this thread was re-opened. I think we all want to see this through to a (positive) conclusion.
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brak
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by brak » Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:04 pm

Thanks to everyone for hanging in there with me. No further developments to report but will keep you posted.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by DavidRoseMountain » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:01 pm

I also want to know the outcome of this situation. We could all face this problem, and it behooves everyone on SatuMedia to be aware of this and to know what to do and how to prevent such identity theft if that's even possible.

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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by TravelGeek » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:16 pm

remomnyc wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:39 pm
Is there an equivalent elsewhere to The Haggler from the New York Times. The Haggler retired in June, but other media outlets may have a similar consumer advocate. That would be a great place to report your father's story and apply pressure to Transamerica to do right by him.
Not quite the same, but perhaps David Lazarus at the LA Times. He writes a column called Consumer Confidential.

http://latimes.com/business/lazarus/

He wrote in the past (I think he was still at the SF Chronicle at the time) about his own experiences with identity theft.

“David Lazarus' column runs Tuesdays and Fridays. He also can be seen daily on KTLA-TV Channel 5 and followed on Twitter @Davidlaz. Send your tips or feedback to [email protected].”

Perhaps a quick question via Twitter might be helpful.

student
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by student » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:42 pm

I also want to thank the moderator for reopening this. I have been reading this thread and I have learned from it.

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Re: Identity theft

Post by evancox10 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:59 pm

fantasytensai wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:06 pm
brak wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:27 pm
So here is what I know so far. The custodian of my father's IRA states that in early September they received a phone call from a man posing as my father, who passed all the security questions and requested a change in email address and that forms for withdrawal of funds be sent to that email. Around two weeks later the custodian received all the paperwork authorizing the withdrawal of funds from the account, and the electronic transfer of said funds into a bank account under my father's name at a bank he had never heard of and certainly did not use for banking (Regions Bank). The custodian states that the paperwork had my father's (alleged) signature notarized, and also included a copy of a check from the bank account into which the funds were to be deposited. At that point, the custodian effected the requested transfer of $52,000. That is where things stand. The custodian (Transamerica) is initiating an investigation, we will be filing a police report. I have no idea how this could have happened, and more importantly what safety precautions we need to take at this point. We are freezing my fathers accounts with Transition, Experian and Equifax but I don't know what else to do. And obviously the question of who is on the hook for the money lingers out there. Any and all input would be most welcomed.
If the signature is notarized, then go after the notary. That's literally the reason why people require things notarized (and sounds like it helps you in this situation so it works out well).

Even if the notary is also another victim in this, your father can sue him for the amount of the damages caused.
Willing to bet there wasn't any actual notary involved in this process...

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:55 am

2015 SEC Study:
The Securities and Exchange Commission released details Tuesday from a study of cybersecurity practices at more than 100 broker-dealers and registered investment advisers. Just 15% of broker-dealers and 9% of advisers offer security guarantees to clients that would make them whole after cyber-related losses, the study found. At the same time, 88% of broker-dealers and 74% of advisers said they “have experienced cyber attacks directly or through one or more of their vendors.”
https://marketwatch.com/story/most- ... 2015-02-03

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:10 am

FINRA is the industry's non-government regulatory organization. They recommend that you ask your brokerage firm:
Will you reimburse me if my assets are compromised by a cyber-attack?
http://finra.org/investors/alerts/c ... erage-firm

mptfan
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by mptfan » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:31 am

tadamsmar wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:10 am
FINRA is the industry's non-government regulatory organization. They recommend that you ask your brokerage firm:
Will you reimburse me if my assets are compromised by a cyber-attack?
http://finra.org/investors/alerts/c ... erage-firm
Tadamsmar, thanks for posting that, I notice that the answer to that question is conspicuously absent on FINRA's website. FINRA is the financial industry's self regulatory organization, and they claim to be "dedicated to investor protection and market integrity through effective and efficient regulation of broker-dealers. FINRA is not part of the government. We’re a not-for-profit organization authorized by Congress to protect America’s investors by making sure the broker-dealer industry operates fairly and honestly."

So, if it were true that there is an industry wide policy within the financial industry to reimburse customers for losses due to identity theft, isn't it reasonable to expect that the industry regulatory organization would say so? Wouldn't they be proud of that and they would want to boast about it to reassure their customers? The fact that they do not do that and instead leave the question unanswered should give most people pause before reflexively assuming such a policy exists.
I eat risk for breakfast. :)

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:58 am

Advice from a law firm to investment firms:
Boards should consider with counsel whether their funds’ current prospectuses and other disclosure documents appropriately disclose any possible risks to shareholders with respect to cyberlosses.
https://perkinscoie.com/images/cont ... r-2014.pdf

But the article seems to say that it is unlikely that the SEC would allow investment firms to stick the shareholders with cyberlosses. Overall article is mainly about the implications of the enormous range of the uncertainties concerning who covers losses.

AuthorBobSullivan
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by AuthorBobSullivan » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:08 pm

Please do contact me. I wrote that msnbc.com story in 2007 and I might be able to help. Bob At BobSullivan DOT Net

sschoe2
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by sschoe2 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:45 pm

student wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:42 pm
I also want to thank the moderator for reopening this. I have been reading this thread and I have learned from it.
Someone opened a thread on this at reddit/personal finance for discussion. There is some good comments there as well.

https://reddit.com/r/personalfinanc ... ity_theft/

david99
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by david99 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:47 pm

I know someone that has an account at Transamerica and she said that they only require a medallion signature guarantee for withdrawals over $150,000. For withdrawals under 150k you need a notary stamp. She also said that they allow you to fax the distribution request form ---- which means that someone could just copy and paste a notary stamp from another document and fax it.

student
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by student » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:47 pm

sschoe2 wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:45 pm
student wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:42 pm
I also want to thank the moderator for reopening this. I have been reading this thread and I have learned from it.
Someone opened a thread on this at reddit/personal finance for discussion. There is some good comments there as well.

https://reddit.com/r/personalfinanc ... ity_theft/
Thanks. I will check it out.

brak
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by brak » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:01 pm

So today I called Transamerica and pushed harder, but in a polite and respectful way. Said that since the phone agents really did not have much information about the ongoing investigation, I wanted to speak to someone in the fraud crimes unit. I was told that the phone agents do not have a telephone number with which to contact the fraud crime unit, so neither he nor I could contact them that way, but that he would send an email to them notifying them that I wished to speak to them regarding the progress of the investigation. Approximately 30 minutes later I received a telephone call from a "team leader" at Transamerica, telling me that Transamerica had not been able to identify the perpetrator of the fraud as of yet, but they were going to make the account whole. There is one more affidavit my father has to sign and get notarized, which seems innocuous (just saying that he did not perpetrate the crime), and they said that once they receive that the account will be made whole within a week.
So I guess some stories do have happy endings. Again, I can't thank all of you enough for the advice and support given, and thanks Lady Geek for reopening the thread.

Doom&Gloom
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Doom&Gloom » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:05 pm

brak,
That sounds extremely encouraging. Hope it goes as they laid out! Good work!

sschoe2
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by sschoe2 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:10 pm

Congratulations.

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tadamsmar
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by tadamsmar » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:10 pm

Sounds like a happy ending.

Wakefield1
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by Wakefield1 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:11 pm

Good to hear. I still hope the perp or ring of perps gets found out. Perhaps someone who had access to the old account business records at the hospital.

ResearchMed
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:27 pm

Wonderful!

What a relief for both you and your father.
Too bad it took so long, with all that time spent worrying (appropriately!) about your father's money.

Given all of this stress, try to do something relaxing, like a weekend getaway or something. You've earned it!

And yes, it would be even better if they ever catch the perps, but I'm not holding my breath... not in this day and age with so many online "methods" to wreak havoc with other people's money.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

retiredjg
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Re: Retirement Account Stolen by Identity theft

Post by retiredjg » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:28 pm

This is good news!

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