Worry About Home Title Fraud?

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Leesbro63
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Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Leesbro63 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:53 am

I heard an ad today for home title fraud protection. The ad claimed that title fraud, and borrowing against a fraudulently titled home, was a new big crime thing two worry about. Is this REALLY something to be concerned about? And while I get it that borrowing is often impersonal, what lender would lend without some further check of the situation? Is this real?

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jfn111
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by jfn111 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:59 am

Title fraud is pretty rare and usually handled through Title Insurance when you bought the house.

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Leesbro63
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Leesbro63 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:03 pm

The claim is that the title gets fraudulently transferred and the crook borrows against it

Here is the site making the claims

https://hometitlelock.com/?gclid=Cj ... KEQAvD_BwE

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Sandtrap
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:05 pm

This seems like some kind of "scheme", not unlike selling car warranty policies on top of the car warranty you already have.
Get's people scared, provides a solution.

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alpenglow
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by alpenglow » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:08 pm

I imagine there is something to it as my local county in NY has started a free email notification service that you can opt-in for. They will alert you to any title changes and liens that are added to your property's records.

DrGoogle2017
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by DrGoogle2017 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:14 pm

Is the fact that you still get property tax notice for your real estate mean anything? I mean if there is a title fraud, you wouldn’t get the notice. I don’t know about liens. But can anybody put a lien on your house without you knowing it?

stan1
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by stan1 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:16 pm

I can see how this could be done. Too much trust is placed in notarized documents.

MP123
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by MP123 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:32 pm

Where I live title information, liens recorded on property, and prop taxes are all available online from the county for free. The above looks sort of like a service that just detects changes in this publicly available information and alerts you.

It's pretty easy to DIY and save the money, just check your recorded information whenever you want. No login, account, or fees needed.

Personally there's a whole lot of things I'd be worried about before Title Fraud.

Nate79
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Nate79 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:35 pm

Clark Howard has recently commented that these are mostly not needed and bordering on playing on the fears of people with the recent hacks.

J295
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by J295 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm

I can't imagine how it could negatively effect my real estate title in my home state. The "crook" can only grant whatever interests he/she has, and posing as me without my authority he/she has no such authority, even if they pull the wool over the lender's eyes .... it seems to me that in such case it's the lender's problem and not mine .... i didn't borrow any money and I didn't pledge any collateral. If the lender won't remove the fraudulent mortgage/deed of trust when I find out about it I can bring an action for slander of title. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing risk to me in our particular state and situation.

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Leesbro63
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Leesbro63 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:47 pm

Nate79 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:35 pm
Clark Howard has recently commented that these are mostly not needed and bordering on playing on the fears of people with the recent hacks.
Thank you. THIS is exactly what I wanted to know. In other words, this isn't something we should waste energy worrying about.

Mudpuppy
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:55 pm

Sounds like LifeLock for titles... and LifeLock does very little to protect a consumer. So I would assume this service has the same lack of value. For $10 a month, I can set a reminder to check the county's title search page once a month and be ahead a few bucks, since it won't take $10 worth of my time to check.

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by CedarWaxWing » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:05 pm

J295 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:48 pm
I can't imagine how it could negatively effect my real estate title in my home state. The "crook" can only grant whatever interests he/she has, and posing as me without my authority he/she has no such authority, even if they pull the wool over the lender's eyes .... it seems to me that in such case it's the lender's problem and not mine .... i didn't borrow any money and I didn't pledge any collateral. If the lender won't remove the fraudulent mortgage/deed of trust when I find out about it I can bring an action for slander of title. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing risk to me in our particular state and situation.
1+ A lender getting me to pay back a loan I never took out is a great deal different than me trying to get my funds back from a thief.

Lender beware.... should be the rule.

Mudpuppy
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Mudpuppy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:20 pm

Out of curiosity, I looked into the background of this company, Title Lock Corporation. I was perplexed to see that the domain name was registered privately (most corporations have a public domain name registration) and that the hosting was based at GoDaddy. But I was able to dig up some press releases from a couple of years ago when the company was founded in California. This seems to be the latest venture from a man who used to be in the title search business before he sold his company to First America back in 2000: http://firstam.com/news/2000/the-fi ... 00713.html

It looks like the original company combined multiple public title data sources for benefit of title companies. It sounds like the new business does the same sort of data combination. I wonder if a conflict of interest agreement has expired and the founder decided to market directly to the consumer rather than go back into the title search business for title companies.

I still don't see how any value is added to the consumer though, since most people can access this information themselves for free on their municipality's property recorder website.

MP123
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by MP123 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:58 pm

Ever since clicking through to the hometitlelock link above I've been bombarded by AdSense ads telling me how big of a problem it is.

I suspect the company is running an aggressive ad campaign trying to scare people into singing up.

Interesting findings Mudpuppy!

LarryAllen
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by LarryAllen » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:01 pm

I am thinking to put liens (real or fake) against my properties so that a title company would have a harder time transferring title and/or financing it for someone posing as me. One extra hurdle the scammers would have to get around.

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Leesbro63
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Leesbro63 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:17 pm

LarryAllen wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:01 pm
I am thinking to put liens (real or fake) against my properties so that a title company would have a harder time transferring title and/or financing it for someone posing as me. One extra hurdle the scammers would have to get around.
Is that REALLY necessary? What about all of the millions of seniors with paid-for homes? Should THEY put liens on them to avoid fraud? Most wouldn't even think to do this.

LarryAllen
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by LarryAllen » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:49 pm

Leesbro63 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:17 pm
LarryAllen wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:01 pm
I am thinking to put liens (real or fake) against my properties so that a title company would have a harder time transferring title and/or financing it for someone posing as me. One extra hurdle the scammers would have to get around.
Is that REALLY necessary? What about all of the millions of seniors with paid-for homes? Should THEY put liens on them to avoid fraud? Most wouldn't even think to do this.
I hear ya. I personally have a lot of paid-for homes so it seems worth it to me. If I had one home maybe not. However, it seems worth it to take some precaution if you are an overly cautious person. People go to the trouble of forming LLCs to protect real estate from lawsuits. Why not a lien!?

bberris
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by bberris » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:15 am

Wouldn't this be fraud against the lender that the scammer used? You have title and your lender has your mortgage. Once the scammed lender realizes what happened, they would drop their claim. Title insurance protects you from adverse claims before you close, I am not sure it protects from events afterwards.

The only scam I see is the "protection" .

bberris
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by bberris » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:18 am

LarryAllen wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:49 pm
Leesbro63 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:17 pm
LarryAllen wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:01 pm
I am thinking to put liens (real or fake) against my properties so that a title company would have a harder time transferring title and/or financing it for someone posing as me. One extra hurdle the scammers would have to get around.
Is that REALLY necessary? What about all of the millions of seniors with paid-for homes? Should THEY put liens on them to avoid fraud? Most wouldn't even think to do this.
I hear ya. I personally have a lot of paid-for homes so it seems worth it to me. If I had one home maybe not. However, it seems worth it to take some precaution if you are an overly cautious person. People go to the trouble of forming LLCs to protect real estate from lawsuits. Why not a lien!?
LLC does not protect the real estate. The LLC protects the owner from a claim from the LLC actions. Anyone can still make a claim against the LLC holding the real estate. The LLC will not protect you personally from any claim arising outside the LLC, and they can just attach your shares of the LLC.

LarryAllen
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by LarryAllen » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:14 am

bberris wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:18 am
LLC does not protect the real estate. The LLC protects the owner from a claim from the LLC actions. Anyone can still make a claim against the LLC holding the real estate. The LLC will not protect you personally from any claim arising outside the LLC, and they can just attach your shares of the LLC.
Yes, I know how LLC's work. I made an over-simplified statement. My point of doing an LLC is to put one more layer of protection between the property and myself. Of course any asset of the LLC would be subject to a lawsuit related to that property but I would like to isolate it from other assets. The question becomes at what level (i.e. small value properties) is it economical to do separate (or series) LLCs. Of course $2m minimum umbrella goes without saying in my mind.

quantAndHold
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:58 am

This would be a hard crime to commit. Mortgage lenders require title insurance, and title insurance companies actually investigate the title history before issuing the insurance.

Regardless, if the fraudster was successful, the victim would be the bank that issued the mortgage.

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Abe
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Abe » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:11 pm

Most people get title insurance when they buy their home. The title policy is good as long as they own the home. I think the title policy would cover this.
Slow and steady wins the race.

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Leesbro63
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Re: Worry About Home Title Fraud?

Post by Leesbro63 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:32 pm

Abe wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:11 pm
Most people get title insurance when they buy their home. The title policy is good as long as they own the home. I think the title policy would cover this.
I think it only covers fraud up until the buyer closes to buy the house. It doesn't protect a current owner from someone committing current fraud then borrowing against a fraudulently transferred house. I supposed new title insurance would protect the next owner...but certainly the title insurance company will have a lawyer who finds the fraud before they commit to issuing the insurance to a potential new buyer.

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